Runners!!!

Uncle Buck

Well-Known Member
Truth be said now chaps, How many of you have taken a shot only to see your beast

vanish into the undergrowth. Which brings me to the reason for this post.

How many of you have or have access to a Deer dog ?

For myself, I do not own a Deer dog but do have access to one, I think anyone

who stalks deer in woodland conditions, should give this serious consideration.

I see it is a legal requirement in Germany & Sweden for Stalkers.

Do you think it may also come into play in the UK ?

Rgds, Buck.
 
Good point.
I have had a few runners maybe get 4 a year, mostly when i am using my 22-250 very rarely do i get runners with my .270 as they are dropped on the spot with the occasional legs up in the air twitching like a dead fleck.(actually I know a few women like that as well):)

I dont have a dog and sometimes wish that i had ,we do have access to one but I have never used it.
First and foremost I am one of those stalkers who feels that a dog should be only used as a tool to find runners and would never have a dog accompanying me . Some swear by them being with you I find with my type of stalking that to many chances are missed as deer especially Roe deer scent or see the dog before you. some are mesmorised with its presence others leg it quickly so its my choice not to be accompanied by a dog.

Keeping a dog in a car until its needed would be the only other option for me , but thats one i would not consider either as its unfair and not humane to leave a dog locked in the back of a vehicle on the possibility that it may be needed so my choice again I dont have a dog.
But if I really got stuck and could not find a downed beast then I would ring one of the guys who lives local and ask him to bring his dog out which he has agreed to.
Like I said I havent had to ring him ,I have been fortunate to find them by following the blood trail myself and in one occurance quartering and griding the ground until i found it when the blood trail was lost.
 
please read my article GREAT DAY FOR THE DOG i think the dog work brings with it an extra vacet to stalking bit like reloading i suppose some folks are dog people some are not, good to know someone that is .i think the more deer one shoots then the inevitable will happen and you loose one then trying with a dog can only help to ease the pain of a lost animal should the dog fail to find it too ! at least you tried .
 
This lad has got me out of the brown stuff a few times normaly once or twice per year I will need him to find an animal for me. I have not had to use him this doe season. Last year I chest shot an animal missed the hear just above fully expanded took both lungs. the animal still made it 150m before it realised it was dead on its feet. I would have struggeled to find it without the dog. The deer in the picture only went 70m but it was in thick cover. It decided to go up hill away from water so clearly hadn't been reading the same books as me!! without the dog I would have struggled to find this animal.

P1010035.jpg


Dave
 
Agree with Norma 308 here. I am very much a dog person so therefore the addition of a deer dog to my stalking is the way I go. He is very much part of the stalking day and has been since he was 6 months old. Not needed every day out but if he is to me it's like enjoying another aspect of my way of life and what I enjoy. I don't see him as a dog. He is my stalking partner and he certainly contributes to my day.
Whether we should all by law require a deer dog, I do not think so. Some persons enjoy dogs and have the ability to train/condition a dog for deer some don't. Not necessarily that they don't have or could learn the skills required but just that their working/family life may not suit a dedicated deer dog or for that matter any dog. What I do believe should be law is that anyone stalking should have access to a dog. Nobody intends to wound and loose a beast but it will happen to anybody who stalks. We must be in a position to address that situation as it arises. A good dog is the answer.
There are many on here who travel well out with their home areas to stalk. Getting in touch with local guys who have dogs may not be a bad idea. I think it has been suggested before but a directory of deer dogs available through the site maybe of advantage to travelling stalkers.
 
Agree with Norma 308 here. I am very much a dog person so therefore the addition of a deer dog to my stalking is the way I go. He is very much part of the stalking day and has been since he was 6 months old. Not needed every day out but if he is to me it's like enjoying another aspect of my way of life and what I enjoy. I don't see him as a dog. He is my stalking partner and he certainly contributes to my day.
Whether we should all by law require a deer dog, I do not think so. Some persons enjoy dogs and have the ability to train/condition a dog for deer some don't. Not necessarily that they don't have or could learn the skills required but just that their working/family life may not suit a dedicated deer dog or for that matter any dog. What I do believe should be law is that anyone stalking should have access to a dog. Nobody intends to wound and loose a beast but it will happen to anybody who stalks. We must be in a position to address that situation as it arises. A good dog is the answer.
There are many on here who travel well out with their home areas to stalk. Getting in touch with local guys who have dogs may not be a bad idea. I think it has been suggested before but a directory of deer dogs available through the site maybe of advantage to travelling stalkers.

What a brilliant idea
Maybe admin could incl a section of those with dogs who would be prepared to assist and state what area you in so any would be stalker who may have a problem could contact those with a deer dog.
I for one would appreciate contact numbers in the Dumfries area and would be only to willing to pay out of pocket expenses to someone who would be prepared to assist should their be a need.

If anyone from Dumfries is reading this and your up for it please contact me by P.M with your phone number so I can save it should I need assistance.
Thanks
Stu
 
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I'm lucky in this regard in that I don't own a dog but everywhere I shoot there is at least one dog available for follow up if required.
I am also fortunate in that I have only actually had to use a dog a couple of times, never since I started using the .308 for everything though.

+another for Gazza and Stu for the idea of a dog register, I don't know how it would be organised and worked but on the face of it it seems like a good idea.

Not in support of legislation or legal requirement though, like everything else in the UK, DSC1 and DSC2 for instance, it would quickly be sown up between a couple of providers and then of course the costs would shoot up too.
 
Not everyone can afford the time or the expense of having their own dog.
+1 on the idea of a Deer dog register.
basil.
 
I have a dog, not what I would call a deer dog, but it is a hunting dog and although I haven't used one of my own in the field properly yet, I'm sure they'll be up to the task. I always have access to a deer dog where I stalk and on two occassions have found them invaluable. This is why I'm currently doing bits of tracking work with my own dogs.

I think a register of trained dogs and handlers is a good idea, help to find any beast lost is fantastic, as long as the dog owners don't mind being disturbed at unsociable hours!!
 
Most of my stalking is fallow, and I would say pretty much every chest shot animal we take will usually make a good few yards, and a hundred yards plus is certainly not uncommon! We have a lot of woodland on our ground and my GSP has saved the day on a few occasions! It is amazing how hard a fallow deer is to see in woodland, even when you are practically on top of it!!

+1 for a dog directory, and if anyone local to me needs a hand please don't be afraid to ask or pm for my number for the future.

ATB

Tom
 
'Deer Dog Register' - What a brilliant idea.
Having lost my stalking buddy in February and am now bringing on a 10 week old apprentice crocodile; I'd really 'go' for the above idea until I get this chap up to speed. Then 'we' could join it!.
 
'Deer Dog Register' - What a brilliant idea.
Having lost my stalking buddy in February and am now bringing on a 10 week old apprentice crocodile; I'd really 'go' for the above idea until I get this chap up to speed. Then 'we' could join it!.

It has been tried a couple of times but doesnt seem to ever take off.

There were a number of attempts to try this the first and the one that lasted the longest was called UK Deer Dog register another was one called South West Deer Trackers, another called UK Swiss they have all shut up shop now.

Dont know what the answer is really.
Perhaps the best way is to get to know the stalkers in your area perhaps through the Socials arranged on here and find a Phone a Friend.

The trouble I see with registers is if one gets popular then the next thing is legislation or certification. All is means is more money to be paid out.

Some of the above registers have fallen flat due to having to do tests or tracks with your dog to get on the list. I dont believe that these tests represent the abilities of a proper working deer dog. I think they are a different sport altogether.
 
I've had 2 runners in the last 2 years, first a Red Hind, no dog to hand. The second a Roe Doe, shot at 15-20m away, deer jamp 6 foot in the air, no idea I was there, ran off, over 2 fences. Was with an experienced dog and handler, the deer ran into inpenatrable woods, we suspect the dog had found the deer within 10m of wood edge, but we just couldn't get 1m into the wood it was that thick.

TJ
 
There were a number of attempts to try this the first and the one that lasted the longest was called UK Deer Dog register another was one called South West Deer Trackers, another called UK Swiss they have all shut up shop now.

No doubt money was involved.
If your mate called you out to find a lost deer you would do it for a mate for nothing or peanuts.
A total stranger on the other end of the phone?
"No problem sir. I`m £40 per hour and my dog is a straight fee of £200 for the duration"
basil.
 
There were a number of attempts to try this the first and the one that lasted the longest was called UK Deer Dog register another was one called South West Deer Trackers, another called UK Swiss they have all shut up shop now.

No doubt money was involved.
If your mate called you out to find a lost deer you would do it for a mate for nothing or peanuts.
A total stranger on the other end of the phone?
"No problem sir. I`m £40 per hour and my dog is a straight fee of £200 for the duration"
basil.

Well in all honesty if someone suggested that to me the runner could keep on running as far as i am concerned.
Their are limits to ones endevours to find a beast and those figures breach my limits;)
 
Well in all honesty if someone suggested that to me the runner could keep on running as far as i am concerned.
Their are limits to ones endevours to find a beast and those figures breach my limits;)

Couldn't agree more. I thought the original idea was just a list of friendly folk (from here??) that would be prepared, if available, to help out for 'a drink' at most - and a bit of exercise for his/her dog. I'd be happy to help if available. Am I being too naive?.
 
Well in all honesty if someone suggested that to me the runner could keep on running as far as i am concerned.
Their are limits to ones endevours to find a beast and those figures breach my limits;)
Stu. I don`t know if that was the case but can you see where i`m coming from?
It`s a "You need me and my dog more than i need you" or "You wannit, you gotta pay for it" mentality.
basil.
 
I love dogs and would fill the house with them if I had the chance but, unfortunately, my "lifestyle," by which I mean that the work I'm forced to do to make money to pay for doing the things I enjoy, just doesn't suit having a dog. I am away for long periods, I work long shifts and strange hours plus I live in a largely urban area and it would be unfair to keep a dog under these circumstances.

While I appreciate and understand the utility that a dog can bring to stalking when a deer runs on and location proves difficult I would be very much opposed to the imposition of rules requiring stalkers to have access to a dog. I am also aware that everyone in this thread is taking a very moderate view on the subject and no one here is insisting that stalkers MUST do anything and I'm with the people who consider a dog nice to have.

In stalking, despite what may appear to be the case, few rules are actually required beyond the common sense, morals and ethics of the stalker on the ground. In the end my morals and ethics are my own business, as are yours, and we should not be asserting that another stalker MUST have X or by law needs to have Y. Stalking is, despite what some might have us believe, a simple sport that is about enjoying yourself in the countryside free from the encumberances of rules, regulations and interfering busy-bodies and I think we should strive to keep it that way, we are not short of rules and interfering busy-bodies as it is. I would draw a parallel, if a somewhat flawed one, between those who want "testing" and "exams" and so on for stalkers and those who want dogs to be a legal requirement.

Each of us has a unique set of personal circumstances which may preclude dogs, or DSC1, or whatever the next regulation that will come our way will turn out to be. The last thing we want is yet more red tape and regulation and I suspect that a legal requirement for us to have access to a dog would put many of us out of stalking as, quite simply, such a dog is not available.

Before such a situation is to be considered a "good reason" (to use a shooting term) for requiring a dog must be established and to do that it would be necessary to find how many deer are lost that might otherwise be found by a dog. I believe it would also be necessary to establish that a dog would lead to reduced suffering - that is to say it would be necessary to prove that a substantial proportion of those deer would be wounded and found alive by a dog such that they can be dispatched to reduce suffering. My little experience with such things is that a deer hit in the body by a modern deer legal rifle bullet is going to die, no matter how bad the shot, within a few hours and one hit in the chest is going to die within a very few minutes. I suspect that a dog is very unlikely to find such a deer before it dies and, therefore, that any insistance on "HAVING" to have a dog available is not based on a deer welfare issue.

Personally I'd love to have a dog to take stalking with me, even if it did reduce my already pretty slim chances of shooting a deer, but I would also object to yet more rules and regulations relating to my sport. We have all seen how the DSC 1 training is not a legal requirement but, in many areas, if you don't have it you will not get a deer legal rifle on your FAC. It is easy to see how dogs might go the same way. Trust me, once a dog became a legal requirement it wouldn't be long before some lentil munching communist would be telling you what colour it must be and what length its left front leg must be and...
 
Couldn't agree more. I thought the original idea was just a list of friendly folk (from here??) that would be prepared, if available, to help out for 'a drink' at most - and a bit of exercise for his/her dog. I'd be happy to help if available. Am I being too naive?.
I was thinking on the same lines that makes 2 of us that must be naive;)
 
In my opinion a dog not only finds runners but if you have a well trained dog it will walk you in on deer and also can tell you when deer are there before you will ever see them,and as for a deer scenting a dog surely it will scent you aswell in that case,phone numbers of people with working dogs in your stalking area that are willing to look for your injured deer is a great idea if they are interested in the well being of the deer there should be no charge.
 
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