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Thread: Leaving big bucks

  1. #1

    Leaving big bucks

    From the previous threads the usual argument about trophy hunting has kicked off again but I do have a serious question.

    Why leave the big bucks? The argument that you shouldnt take them as they will be able to pass on their genetics doesnt really wash as whilst we leave them we are merrily knocking over cartloads of youngsters without any idea of who their father was. As such we let the magnificent old boy have his wicked way year on year until we decide he is going back we then shoot him without any knowledge whatsoever as to wether we have actually already wiped out his gene pool anyway.

    What is the point of leaving a big buck to make more big bucks if we dont want to shoot big bucks anyway. I dont believe there is any evidence that a deer stock with "poor" heads is an unhealthy one. The deer look nicer but other than doing more impressive tree damage and holding a bigger territory what is the actual biological or ecological advantage? (I appreciate young bucks can do a lot of tree damage too)

    I am very interested in the idea that buck heads can be dictated by female genes???? Normally there is an X and Y chromosome and the Y makes something male a pair of XXs make it female. In order to have antlers the buck has to have an Y chromosome so it would make more sense that antler quality is tied to the Y chromosome? Does dont have any Y chromosome so they are unlikely to carry on any male traits from father to future sons.

    To be clear on deer management I am more excited at the start of the does season than the bucks and in general I shoot what I see as I find no purer way of taking a cross section of the population. On the other hand I always say if its got a nice "rack" then I have a bigger smile.

  2. #2
    SD Regular johngryphon's Avatar
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    Just the fact that he is "a big buck/stag" means in reality that he has already passed on his genetics and thus eminently ' hunt able'

  3. #3
    This is a very good thread and I agree with your line of thinking.
    I am commercial and some will say biased or money orientated, but if mr right is out with me and we see a big buck he is shot.
    I am under no pressure to cull from most landowners it is left to me.
    I also think the big lads will be 5-10 year old and his genes are well in the pool.
    You are also correct about the youngsters getting knocked over.
    I also believe (I have bred dogs for years and was service manager on a pig farm for 8 years) that if you cannot select the female(doe) it is worthless as big boy will mate any and all the does he can.(rubbish or good)
    I do see the other line of thinking and it works as many shoots produce better and better bucks but not just by deer management I believe habitat management plays just as big a part in it.
    And leaving big bucks who often roam where ever they like (cos they are big and can) will often be shot/run over on the boundries.
    Just my view and not money orientated I believed this before I was PRO.
    Last edited by www.yorkshireroestalking.; 31-03-2011 at 18:45.

  4. #4
    I don't think it particulary matters what you take or cull,i like to take the younger bucks now before they are driven off further afield and know where my better bucks are later in the season,its not the be all and end all to remove all bucks from an area as i've found it will soon have a new buck move in during the rut as long as you have a few does knocking about and could feesibly be a better way of refeshing a local gene pool,just my uneducated take on it but it works well in areas that won't allow stalking bordering your ground.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnraider View Post
    I don't think it particulary matters what you take or cull,i like to take the younger bucks now before they are driven off further afield and know where my better bucks are later in the season,its not the be all and end all to remove all bucks from an area as i've found it will soon have a new buck move in during the rut as long as you have a few does knocking about and could feesibly be a better way of refeshing a local gene pool,just my uneducated take on it but it works well in areas that won't allow stalking bordering your ground.
    Again I agree here, I try to leave a "good few" does on my ground and never run out of bucks. But I shoot small woods and arable NOT forest plantaions or regrowth.

  6. #6
    dawnraider Young bucks also make good eating.see your point but another way could be shoot the bully and let youngsters stay(more bucks to shoot),problem is tree damage it must be our duty to reduce damage I know it is on land where I shoot.There are so many variables when stalking you could discuss it for ever thats why this forum is good.I just enjoy reading others views (sensible ones that is)

  7. #7
    I have always shot young ones to protect trees. The older bucks seem to do less damage if left but a couple of youngsters tring to impress the ladies do the same as a couple of young lads on a saturday night out side the market hall. They are a pain in the ars@. Plus if the old ones are taken more bucks seem to be attracted to the area makeing it into something resembleling a may bank holiday at Yarmouth. ( mods and rockers with antlers)

    Mark

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by www.yorkshireroestalking. View Post
    Again I agree here, I try to leave a "good few" does on my ground and never run out of bucks. But I shoot small woods and arable NOT forest plantaions or regrowth.
    Same here John mostly small areas of wood,arable and grassland some borders large areas of woodland though so often very productive,i have a few areas of new plantings though, although small i tend to shoot them hard to keep everyone happy.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnraider View Post
    Same here John mostly small areas of wood,arable and grassland some borders large areas of woodland though so often very productive,i have a few areas of new plantings though, although small i tend to shoot them hard to keep everyone happy.
    Much the same.

  10. #10
    Agreed boys but that is culling for crop protection, no argument. Still keen to hear why I shouldnt shoot big bucks in open play with no cull requirement in place

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