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Thread: Dependants and Section 25 in Scotland

  1. #1

    Dependants and Section 25 in Scotland

    SNH Response.doc

    Further to the recent debate on the above topic, I sought legal clarification from SNH and with their permission attach the response. The attached clarifies the situation with their response in blue.

    Hopefully this will keep all on the straight and narrow.

  2. #2
    Ok It is not sexless so I shoot the said male fawn. Why? I am about to deprive it of its mum. Unfortunately hearin the bang that just killed the said male the mum hightails it into the wood. Can I say shot of mum did not present itself but if I shot mum and he legged it I was causing suffering. In other words the answer is still a foggy area,
    Jim

  3. #3
    Jim

    If there was clear intention to shoot the mother and as you say to ensure the dependant did not suffer you took it first then you have a legal argument that what you did was in the 'best interest' of the deer's welfare and are protected. In reality, it would be very difficult for anyone to prove otherwise unless they witnessed that the mother was not in proximity to shoot.

    In general stalkers I have spoken to will take the mother first as the young will generally stay close by and present a shot- certainly my experience with reds, however, I accept your point that they may run off then presenting more of a dilemma! But if they do run off are they then really dependants as most will follow the mother's lead(?)

    The reason for the Post was what has been said in the past is that there was no intention to take the mother and the male dependant was culled (out of Season shooting) without action being required under Section 5 or 26, or that the stalker shot it as they classed all young as 'sexless' until the 1st Open Season after they were born.

    It is quite simple, if you go out and shoot a young deer (if it is out of season based on it's SEX, not causing serious damage and not about to be deprived or already deprived of it's mother) then you are committing an offence under the Deer (Scotland) Act 1996 and that is all I was clarifying for us stalkers in or who come to Scotland.

  4. #4
    Spent seven months on an SNH Island, working on deer management. Accepted practice for SNH stalkers is to shoot the young first, and then the mother. That's for SNH employed stalkers, so I can't see them applying anything else to other people!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by matt_hooks View Post
    Spent seven months on an SNH Island, working on deer management. Accepted practice for SNH stalkers is to shoot the young first, and then the mother. That's for SNH employed stalkers, so I can't see them applying anything else to other people!
    Matt on an island you wouldn't have to go far to find and shoot the mother

    But seriously, SNH do not have any legal dictate to stalkers other than their 'employees' how they should shoot deer except night shooting. Section 25 of the Act states A person shall not be guilty of an offence against this Act or any order made under this Act in respect of any act done for the purpose of preventing suffering by—(b)by any deer calf, fawn or kid deprived, or about to be deprived, of its mother. Therefore, the Act actually implies that the mother is to be taken first and it is perfectly acceptable to shoot the mother first and then the young.

    I suppose it all comes down to judgement at the time of taking the shot.

  6. #6
    firsttimer, trust me, on this island the deer could (and regularly did) go a loooooong way!

    And no, SNH don't have any legal power, but their advice would certainly be sought in the event of any possible prosecution, being the "competent authority" for all things deer in Scotland since they took over DCS.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by matt_hooks View Post
    firsttimer, trust me, on this island the deer could (and regularly did) go a loooooong way!

    And no, SNH don't have any legal power, but their advice would certainly be sought in the event of any possible prosecution, being the "competent authority" for all things deer in Scotland since they took over DCS.
    Matt- so it was Long Island you were on!!!!

    Agreed SNH would be consulted but where is the 'possible prosecution' coming in ?- very unlikely they could comment on a situation they or others never saw and their Best Practice Guides do not include 'recommendation' which should be taken first, but Act does imply mother taken first! I think we will leave it that it is open to the Stalker at the time of taking the shot to justify the reason for their action.

  8. #8
    Firsttimer you will need to look at best practice as writen by DCS/SNH Kids/Fawns First. But to shoot a buck kid and leave the mother you would need a reason and mine this year was crop protection and a cull plan and kids count in the plan no mater what the sex is.

  9. #9
    Matt/David

    I stand corrected and thanks to David have located the Section in the BPG Welfare Cull

    ATB

    Andy

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