Expanding bullets

Peter Eaton

Well-Known Member
Hopefully someone will be able to help me with this? I am trying to find in the Home Office Guidance document where it states the rules on purchasing bullets and expanding bullets.
The reason is I went to a shop yesterday and bought some expanding bullet heads and the person who sold them to me said I could buy as many as I liked as they were just components and not complete bullets. I questioned this as I have had this situation before and when I looked into it expanding heads do have a limit on the amount you can buy but I have searched and searched and cannot fint the information.

Cheers

Pete
 
Expanding heads need to be written on your certificate as they are section 5 ammunition and count towards your overall ammo allowance wether they are made up rounds or not. Also as they need to be locked away in a suitable ammo box, unlike non expanding heads.
 
Also, as a general rule a bullet that is said on the packaging to be 'target', 'match' or implied for accuracy performance is classed as non-expanding. Where the packaging says 'hunting', 'game' or implies or says expanding it is expanding.

To also add another complication, some areas do not enforce the rule that a bullet of expanding ready for loading counts as one round of ammunition on your allowance. This is because of confusion when reloaders have stocks of ammunition, non expanding bullets for target shooting and expanding bullets. Because of this in some areas, a few rfd's don't write bullets onto your certificate unless you ask. Always best to clarify with a quick phone call to your local FLO.
 
Thanks for your replies gents, I have provision on my FAC to possess expanding heads missile 300 ( actually incorrect wording as they should be classed as hitiles as a missile is design to miss a target ) but I also have provision for 6.5x55 expanding 350....how thats interpreted seems to vary from RFD to RFD.
 
Expanding heads need to be written on your certificate as they are section 5 ammunition and count towards your overall ammo allowance wether they are made up rounds or not.

No, sorry but that is not correct.

Expanding bullets/missiles on their own are indeed classified as 'prohibited' items and count towards your overall ammo holding along with complete rounds, but it is specifically mentioned in the HO Guidance that there is no requirement for the RFD to enter them on your FAC - he needs to see that you have the exemption condition to allow you to purchase and possess them but no entry should be made.

3.17 Category (xv) extends the prohibition
on the various types of prohibited
ammunition to the actual bullet or missile
itself, not just the complete round of
ammunition (a complete round consists of
the bullet, the cartridge case, the propellant
and the primer). Certain categories of shooter
such as deerstalkers and vermin controllers
are exempt from the requirement to obtain
the authority of the Secretary of State to
possess expanding ammunition (see Chapter
4) and will have the appropriate condition
entered on their certificate (see Appendix 3).
There is no need for the bullets to be listed
separately on the certificate, other than in the
circumstances described below. However,
where a certificate holder requests large
quantities of bullets, it should be remembered
that the total number of bullets authorised
counts towards their overall limit on
possession of expanding ammunition. The
exception to the rule on listing bullets
separately on a certificate applies in the case
of a certificate holder who wishes to possess
a variety of different types of bullets. This
may be reflected in a relatively higher
overall limit on possession and, in these
circumstances, the bullets may be listed
separately to help avoid unnecessary
stockpiling of complete rounds.
It is not
necessary for the dealer making the sale to
record transactions of expanding bullets on
the certificate but the sale should be recorded
in the dealer’s register.


I carry a copy of the above section with my FAC and have shown it to an RFD who then reversed his intention of recording the sale on my ticket.

Chapter 4 deals with other specifics regarding expanding bullets/missiles.
 
To also add another complication, some areas do not enforce the rule that a bullet of expanding ready for loading counts as one round of ammunition on your allowance. This is because of confusion when reloaders have stocks of ammunition, non expanding bullets for target shooting and expanding bullets. Because of this in some areas, a few rfd's don't write bullets onto your certificate unless you ask. Always best to clarify with a quick phone call to your local FLO.

If anyone is tempted into not sticking with the law on possession of expanding bullets because they believe it's a 'rule' that can be bent to suit their circumstances or on the advice of a mis-informed FLO or RFD, then they are a braver man than me. It's quite clearly laid out in the Firearms Act and the HO Guidance that a single expanding bullet has the same equivilence as a complete round, (see quote from Ch 3.17 above), and you exceed your stated maximum allowances at your own risk.
 
Thanks for finding that Orion. The reason I wanted it is because I had a situation with my Police force who told me I could buy as many expanding heads as I wanted but I knew I couldnt as they counted towards my limit. I then went to a shop the other day in another area and the shopper owner once again said I could buy as many 'heads expanding' as I wanted. I told him that was incorrect and he said he had been told by his police force that was the case. He asked me if I could possibly find out as he didnt want to fall foul by selling to many 'heads expanding' , for as we both agreed if either the buyer or the seller was found to have exeeeded limits then police force would not admit their mistake.
 
Yet another example of those who are administering the law being unable to understand it, and with the cutbacks the situation can only get worse in some force areas. :banghead:
 
Does the ammo limit only refer to expanding bullets? so can you buy as much fmj as you want? Every time i'v bought expanding or fmj ammo it has always been written on my ticket.
 
Don't confuse fully assembled ammo with bullets/missiles.

Any complete rounds, expanding or FMJ, must of course be entered onto your FAC when purchased from an RFD. Expanding bullets do not have to be entered, (although some RFDs do), but they count towards your overall ammo holding even when unassembled and not complete rounds. FMJs or target bullets on their own are classified as components and are unrestricted, so therefore you can have as many as you like in your possession.
 
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I buy whatever is cheapest at the time, the crows don't usually complain :lol:. Last lot i had was ppu but my local rfd says hes getting some cheap mil-surp stuff in, apperently they're getting rid of it because it would'nt cycle in their automatic rifles.. so it would need to be cheap
 
Watch out for german MEN in a batches from 2004. All other MEN stuff has been great but bad primers in a lot of 2004 gear with 1 in 4 misfiring. They would fire usually on the 2nd strike but that is something you only test after pulling and removing the charge I must add!
 
Glad I found and read this thread.
I was wondering about the issue of "expanding bullets" counting towards my total allowance.
Thanks for the information.

regards

silverfoxfintry.
 
I have been informed by a FLO that ammunition useage is monitored as part of showing good reason to possess each firearm. I now specifically ask for each purchase of component bullets and / or ammunition to be recorded irrespective of whether they need to be
 
Don't forget that the bulk of this thread dates from early 2011 and the HO Guidance has gone through some changes since then.

If buying expanding bullets/missiles from a UK RFD then they should now be entered on your FAC. However if, as a number of reloaders do, you purchase expanding bullets/missiles from abroad and they are sent directly to you through the post, then there is no mechanism for them to be entered on your FAC. Which sort of banjaxes your FLO's assertion that ammunition recorded, (not usage), somehow shows 'good reason'! (which it doesn't if you think about it).

As an aside, my own force made no comment that I had zero ammunition purchases recorded other than .22RF at last renewal. ;)
 
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