Cowardice

Knottaclu

Well-Known Member
A few days ago, my wife (who is a retained firefighter) was called out to a traffic accident caused by a car hitting a young Red hind. The car occupants were ok but the deer was obviously mortally wounded (multiple broken bones and probably massive internal bleeding) and lying beside the road.

The police called a vet immediately to put it down but were told that the only one available could take a couple of hours to get there. My wife called me and asked if there was anything I could do. Although only ten minutes away, I was on my way to a meeting with a client and said that I couldn't help. The vet finally arrived after two and a half hours - five minutes after the deer had died from its injuries.

The truth is that I could have called the client and postponed, and gone to give the deer a quick and humane death. However, there were police and lots of spectators present and (the world being what it is these days) I was concerned about the potential problems. The thought of that deer lying there on a baking hot day panting out a bitter end to its life now bothers me considerably. I don't know whether I would have been allowed to do anything but I should have tried.

I'm not writing this to excuse myself - I know what I should have done and will deal with the consequences - but to encourage you all to do whatever you think is right if faced with similar circumstances and not to make the same mistake that I did.
 
What would you have done?
Do you have humane dispatch on your ticket, would you bleed it out with all those people present?
Its a sad fact of life that you have unfortunately been touched by.
Same circumstances I may well have taken the same decision.
 
I would have simply asked those not inclined to see it as a deed well done to leave or turn away and then simply given it a good one with the jack handle to the brain box...instant death with a measured forceful blow.
 
It was the deer's bad luck. If you'd hit it, I'd have expected you to take care of the deer but you didn't. It's only a freaking deer. You take care of your family first and that means seeing clients when you need to, right? Get real.~Muir
 
I don't know what I would have done in those circumstances, but I have often been called out by police to deal with R.T.As, also sheep worrying dogs etc.
 
It is not your place to feel bad about this. Your constabulary should have a list of deer despatch folk available for call out night and day. Perhaps a letter to them mentioning this case and the despatch lists held by other constabularies would go a little way to preventing this from happening again.
I was called to attend a deer (roe doe) on the outside lane of the motorway. I asked the policeman why he did not run it over again or smack it with a jack handle or his stick. He said that would be cruel, and so the poor wee thing lay there for an hour (not cruel ???). Once it was dead the policeman would not even help me drag the deer to the verge in case he got blood on his hands or trousers. Now that I think is a coward.
 
Cowardice?, I think not, a bit hard on yourself there, must be loads of us that have either done something , or not done a deed that has left a knot in the stomach, or a doubt in the mind, all part of the human condition really,
 
It was the deer's bad luck. If you'd hit it, I'd have expected you to take care of the deer but you didn't. It's only a freaking deer. You take care of your family first and that means seeing clients when you need to, right? Get real.~Muir

I dont like your attitude towards our quarry sir nothing deserves to suffer for two hours

regards pete .
 
6 years ago a workmate driving his truck came across a traffic jam caused by a roe being struck by a car on the school run... it had been witnessed by many mothers and children. He phoned me and i told him to put the animal down ASAP. He dragged the deer over a verge then over a small wall and dispatched it with a hammer to the back of its head... traffic jam gone in seconds but a visit from the police that night to say that someone had raised a complaint as the scene had distressed the onlookers... you just can't win.

As for your comment Muir... as you stay in Yankee-Doodle land i suppose you always do the right thing, after you have tried everything else, just like Uncle Sams finest?
 
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I have been in the fire service for a long time. RTC's have a very strange atmosphere, and everyone there has priorities to work to. Most are casualty focussed, but some are car focussed, or perhaps concentrating on other property or pets.

A fire fighter would be sacked for whacking an animal, even though i have considered it a number of times. No officer would allow a member of the public to kill an animal, as most of us would simply not know what was involved or if it was legal. If i was in charge you would not be allowed (as a member of the public ) into the inner cordon, into the area where we were working, it can be dangerous, and i would not allow you to do anything without full PPE. It is not worth my job to do this. You had a description of the situation, from your wife andf acted on the information.

Writing what you did is not the words of a coward, though i am sure you will remember it for some time. However remember that this is not your fault, it happened and it is over. It is not your fault!
 
I dont like your attitude towards our quarry sir nothing deserves to suffer for two hours

regards pete .


A bit harsh, I think?

This wasn't in fact anyone's quarry, but rather the victim of a motor-collision. While I'm sure none of us (including Muir) would wish avoidable suffering on any creature, Knottaclu was in fact not even present, whereas others, who could have killed the deer humanely, were.

If the hind had managed to haul itself a few hundred yards off the road after the accident to die out of sight, would this still be seen as moral dilemma? Would a reasonable man feel obliged to leave a client in the lurch and bring a tracking-dog to the scene to find and dispatch it?
Are all people competant to kill deer humanely responsible for the humane dispatch of all injured deer, regardless of personal inconvenience or location of the incident?

I think that Knottaclu is not guilty of cowardice, but rather that he made a reasonable decision not to attend not on the basis that he was watching the telly or going shopping, but that he had a specific appointment to keep with respect to his business.
 
I would have simply asked those not inclined to see it as a deed well done to leave or turn away and then simply given it a good one with the jack handle to the brain box...instant death with a measured forceful blow.

Sadly John they don't just turn away and leave. I had a guy once cause what I consider to have been the unecessary suffering of a roe for 14 hours. He was a passer by, not qualified in squat and stood and argued whether the deer would survive. Now I aint no expert but I assessed the situation and the scene and concluded the deer had injuries that would ultimately have killed it which it did. He insisted it went to one of the animal welfare groups who took it away for it to doe 14 hours later.

Sad.
 
I dont like your attitude towards our quarry sir nothing deserves to suffer for two hours

regards pete .

I don't like to see animals suffer, but I wouldn't take food from my family's mouth to put down a deer with ample law enforcement standing about. Sorry to have sounded so harsh, but it's the way I am: Family first, and in this case, regrettably, cleaning up after someone else's screw-ups, second.~Muir
 
6 years ago a workmate driving his truck came across a traffic jam caused by a roe being struck by a car on the school run... it had been witnessed by many mothers and children. He phoned me and i told him to put the animal down ASAP. He dragged the deer over a verge then over a small wall and dispatched it with a hammer to the back of its head... traffic jam gone in seconds but a visit from the police that night to say that someone had raised a complaint as the scene had distressed the onlookers... you just can't win.

As for your comment Muir... as you stay in Yankee-Doodle land i suppose you always do the right thing, after you have tried everything else, just like Uncle Sams finest?

I beats seldom doing the right thing.~Muir
 
I'm with Muir. I've dispatched a number of poor road side deer victims whilst on my way to and from various shoots. I don't however think i should feel bad if someone calls me whilst i am at work and i cant attend. It's not your fault.
 
sometimes you have to make a choice in life, and just hope its the right one. driving home from work last year there was an rta where the guy was trapped under a soft top mgb, and nobody doing anything.The guy was half in half out the car and was dying so i made a decision to lift car enough that he could breath lucky for me the guy suvived but it could so easy have gone the other way
 
You mean, another stalker might have come along and bled him out?



(Well done you for getting stuck in. Clearly that chap will be forever in your debt. I only hope I would have the same presence of mind should I find myself in a similar situation.)
 
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My sympathies , a definite damned if you do damned if you dont.
My view is the welfare of the animal comes first before any other consideration. It's a lot easier if it's your ground ,if you judge that the injuries are severe and that dispatch will end the suffering do what you can , if your confident in your ability. It may not make you popular with onlookers but it is defensible in law.
Awhile ago i was called to a roe buck struck on the road the people who hit it knew i stayed close and was keepering at the time . I arrived with a 12gauge and knife to find the buck with a broken back, head up dragging itself around a ring of onlookers , some wanted me to shoot it some wanted a vet called and they called the police when i said i was going to shoot it. I eventually dragged it off the road shot and dressed it while being abused by one family(all adult for want of a better description) who stayed waiting for the police. By the time they arrived it was hanging from a tree half skinned where i had tried to show the extent of the injuries , the police checked it checked me and were satisfied that i'd done the best i could . The family were moved on with a warning if they didnt they'd be cautioned. Not pleasant but the right thing to do.
 
I don't like to see animals suffer, but I wouldn't take food from my family's mouth to put down a deer with ample law enforcement standing about. Sorry to have sounded so harsh, but it's the way I am: Family first, and in this case, regrettably, cleaning up after someone else's screw-ups, second.~Muir

muir sorry if i was a bit gung ho with the keyboard
I can see from your reply that your post was not meant as I may have read it .
nice to get a dignified reply without getting into a war .
regards pete .
 
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