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Thread: FAC conditions, your thougths would be appreciated.....

  1. #1

    FAC conditions, your thougths would be appreciated.....

    I recently had my licence returned having asked for it to include conditions for boar and goat, what I got was the following:

    'The .308 rifle/moderator and ammunition shall be used for shooting deer and other lawful quarry and for zeroing etc.......'

    it then goes on to say

    'the certificate holder may possess, purchase or acquire expanding ammunition, or the missiles of such ammunition in the cailbres authorised by this certificate and use only in connection with any one or more of the follwoing, namely;
    a)the shooting of deer
    b)the shooting of vermin or, in the course of carrying activities in connection with the management of any estate,
    other widlife;
    c)the humane killing of animal
    d)the shooting of animals for the protection of other animals or humans.


    I have never seen the list above before, and whilst it seems to be spot on (and for that I would praise Norfolk Police) I am confused as to why it relates to my ammunition and not the firearms......
    I do humane dispatch for the Police, so I'm guessing I am covered, but has anyone else ever had conditions like this? I particularly find the protection of other animals or humans condition to be interesting!

    I look forward to you thoughts

  2. #2
    its worded same as mine and expanding ammo now needs added on ticket

  3. #3
    Deerstalker.308,

    I'm really surprised that you haven't had that condition on your FAC before. It's the standard 'exemption' we all should have to allow possession of otherwise prohibited S.5 expanding ammo and bullets. If you didn't have it before it might have been a cock-up by the FLD because you would have been in unlawful possession of same and RFDs would have been committing an offence to sell the stuff to you!

    Do a search on this section under 'expanding ammo' or similar and you'll find quite a few threads mentioning it. Also covered in Chapter 4 of the HO Guidance - it's been a requirement for many years now and came about due to the post-Dunblane banning of all expanding, not just pistol rounds.

  4. #4
    Aren't you allowed to use expanding ammunition on the range, for zeroing, or even in order to see which loads are best in your rifle?

    Or are you only allowed to use it when shooting live quarry?

  5. #5
    Thanks for the responses, I have always had permission to possess expanding ammo, that is not what I am questioning, it is the points listed below:
    a)the shooting of deer
    b)the shooting of vermin or, in the course of carrying activities in connection with the management of any estate,
    other widlife;
    c)the humane killing of animal
    d)the shooting of animals for the protection of other animals or humans.

    The latter two in particular, but also wanted to check whether people thought that having permission for the ammunition to be used for these purposes was enough or whether the bit relating to the rifle should also mention humane dispatch etc.... hope that's clearer.....

  6. #6
    you are covered for everything but... where 'boar' and 'goat' for example are not specifically mentioned you are entitled to clarification. If you ask for a letter from you flo they should give you one.

    Tartan T, Expanding ammo can't be used for shooting targets on ranges other than for testing and zeroing purposes. The are specifically for use in connection with shooting of animals as per individual conditions on FAC's.

  7. #7
    Cheers Paul, that was rather what I thought, but as per usual there is always a degree of it being 'open to inturpretation', I thought it looked pretty comprehensive, but thought a few opinions were worth getting....

  8. #8
    You can't get any better than 'any other lawful quarry' - it will cover you for goats and boar. Unless they have suddenly become 'unlawful' quarry!

    Quote Originally Posted by deerstalker.308 View Post
    The latter two in particular, but also wanted to check whether people thought that having permission for the ammunition to be used for these purposes was enough or whether the bit relating to the rifle should also mention humane dispatch etc.... hope that's clearer.....
    No, you really need to have rifle also conditioned for the particular use as well - but...........some forces have quite liberal interpretations of conditions attached to the firearm that might cover humane dispatch, so maybe check with yours. The standard expanding ammo condition that you now have is the HO recommended universal 'catch-all' one that will cover all the use eventualities that the HO lawyers could foresee when it was introduced after the debacle when all expanding ammo was put into S.5. It doesn't read well because it was cobbled together in a rush and has never been sorted out.

    3.30 Section 5A(4) of the 1968 Act (as
    amended by section 10 of the 1997 Act)
    states that authority is not required for
    shooters to possess etc. expanding
    ammunition or expanding bullets prohibited
    by sections 5(1A)(f) and (g) providing they
    have firearm certificates or visitors’ permits
    authorising their use in connection with four
    specific activities. These activities are:
    1. the lawful shooting of deer;
    2. the shooting of vermin or, for the
    purposes of estate management, other
    wildlife;
    3. the humane killing of animals; and
    4. the shooting of animals to protect other
    animals or people.

    3.31 However, the use of the phrase “in
    connection with” means that it is acceptable
    for shooters to use expanding ammunition to
    zero their rifles with the ammunition they
    will be using in the field provided it is for
    one or more of the four activities listed
    above. Zeroing might also include training
    and testing, whether on a rifle range or other
    suitable land.

  9. #9
    Whilst some police forces might be quite happy with the wording "other legal quarry" to cover boar and goats other police forces require them to be specifically named. I suppose how much trouble you might be in depends on where you shoot your boar and goats, if it is within the issuing police force area then there should be no issues however if you shoot in a police area where the FLO requires boar or goat to be specifically named I'm not sure what the position is unless you have a letter from the issuing force stating that "other legal game" includes boar and goat.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by paul k View Post
    Whilst some police forces might be quite happy with the wording "other legal quarry" to cover boar and goats other police forces require them to be specifically named. I suppose how much trouble you might be in depends on where you shoot your boar and goats, if it is within the issuing police force area then there should be no issues however if you shoot in a police area where the FLO requires boar or goat to be specifically named I'm not sure what the position is unless you have a letter from the issuing force stating that "other legal game" includes boar and goat.
    I have to disagree with this Paul K. 'Other Legal Quarry' means exactly what it says on the tin, the right to shoot all legal quarry. And I have read elsewhere on this forum, that if badgers were to be culled and it therefore became legal quarry, this condition would cover them too. Although granted by one particular police force, the FAC is a UK wide licence and both boar and goat are legal quarry. NWP recently gave me 'other legal quarry' after an application to ask for goats and boar to be added.

    Some forces may like them added separately, which sounds controlling, but if someone went in to that county to shoot boar and goat under the 'other legal quarry' condition what can they do? Claim boar and goat are not legal quarry?

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