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Thread: Another request for FAC help - sorry!

  1. #1

    Smile Another request for FAC help - sorry!

    Hi, Any advice or guidance on the following would be very much appreciated, thanks.

    Apologies for the questions some on this forum may have answered a thousand times but my fellow club members have given conflicting advice (everyone's an expert!) and I don't want to keep going back to my stalking guide with dumb questions! That's what this forum is for I guess!

    I'm a full member of a Home Office approved target shooting club shooting fullbore at Bisley and rimfire indoors at our club. I'm a previous FAC holder (target shooting only) but let my licence lapse in the late '90s due to my career taking up all my time.

    I'm over that now (the career that is!) Life's too short. I've rediscovered my love of shooting, and the outdoors and I'm just about to put in for my FAC (Thames Valley Police).

    I've been fortunate to have had some limited stalking experience. I'm not wealthy and I don't currently have access to land cleared for stalking. BUT I have been on accompanied stalks which I have paid to do as a client, and I will be attending more in future, as well as taking my DSC1 and 2.

    I am committed to spending as much of my time as possible in the field in future and if I can create the right opportunity for myself, making it a lifestyle, not a pastime.

    The deer management group I have stalked with have kindly advised that they will vouch for me as having reason to ask for expanding ammo etc and I'm also aware that moderators can be permitted on health and safety grounds for target shooting alone. I have stalk receipts and my stalking contact also advised that if I get a receipt for a deposit on a future stalk from another deer management group this would be favourable.

    As far as my application goes, I am planning on filling in Part B, section 19 as follows :

    Calibre: .308

    Type: Rifle + Moderator

    Reason: Target Shooting + Deer Stalking

    Where: (my target club details) + private land approved for guided/unguided stalking.

    I will duplicate the above for:
    .243 ('target and Muntjac' - should I just state 'deer stalking' despite the fact this calibre is not suitable for all species?)
    .223 ('target shooting')
    22LR ('target shooting + vermin shooting')

    Should I list all moderators separately? (the problem being there are only 5 slots on application).

    Given my situation can anyone advise on my chances of getting a moderator and expanding ammo on my ticket?

    Can I state 'target + vermin' for .22LR without prior access to land? Or will I have to leave it at 'target shooting' only?

    If I have to omit deer stalking as a valid reason, can I still attend guided stalks with my own rifle and use factory expanding rounds supplied by my guide?

    Last question: should I list all calibres of ammo and then add '.308 expanding', and '.223 expanding'?

    Thanks in advance for any advice, and sorry again for the same old questions (I've searched for the appropriate answers on here but it's a minefield).

    This is a great forum by the way

    Cheers, John

  2. #2

    I believe the 243 suitable for ALL deer species . I know in Sussex they would want better reason for 308 as well. Good luck though

    Atb Steve

  3. #3
    I would expect you to have to justify the "need "for the different calibres you wish to hold, just wanting them will not be enough.. If you are going from nothing to an armful of rifles with limited experience under your belt you may have problems and probably rightly so
    . I would advise choosing one rifle for deer stalking and poss a small bore for rabbits ect if you can show you have access/permission on suitable ground for them . If you subsequently aquire some foxing ground you could always put in a variation for a 223 or 204.
    Personally i've used a 243 for everything for the past 15yrs , it's fast enough and accurate for foxes , although some would suggest a bit under gunned for big red stags in the rut. If you close the range within 200m and shoot accurately you can avoid problems.

  4. #4
    some may say go for all you want ,my advise is just my opinium walk before you can run although you had a rifle some yrs ago ,select a 22lr +mod for target and vermin ,243 +mod for target, deer ,fox both for use with expanding ammo should you want a 22 c/f later apply then. again in my opinium a dsc1 can only help yr dedication to do things correctly but not required by law [yet]
    good luck

  5. #5
    I would add fox to the .223 (it's always good to have on there) and maybe fox while stalking on .243

    You could have a problem justifying 2 deer calibre rifles on first application, it's not unheard of but most FEO's prefer you to choose one or the other.
    "It's halfway down the hill, directly below that tree next to a rock that looks like a bell-end"

    Good deals with ~ deako ~ sakowsm ~ dryan ~ 2734neil ~ mo ~ riggers ~ mmbeatle ~ seanct ~ an du ru fox

  6. #6
    BASC have a guide to filling out form 101 on their site under application forms.

    You need 'good reason' to acquire weapons, good reason is usually land to shoot on be it at a club or fields. If you have no fields for 22LR you will not be allowed it for vermin.

    You have to list each rifle and each sound mod as a separate item on Q19.

    Each police force has its own policy WRT CF acquisition, some require DSC1 prior to issuing a 243 or 308 for deer, ask for it in writing.
    Last edited by jack; 15-05-2011 at 16:18.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by pitiliedon View Post
    I would expect you to have to justify the "need "for the different calibres you wish to hold, just wanting them will not be enough..
    This seems to be an area that confuses a number of people who have been through the FAC application process. You have to demonstrate you have a good reason for a particular firearm, you don't have to show you 'need' one. See the Police Firearms Guidance:

    13.6 “Good reason” should be neither
    confined to need nor equated with desire.
    Most firearm certificate holders possess
    firearms for reasons of their profession,
    sport or recreation, and may properly wish
    to exercise discretion as to what types of
    firearms they choose for these purposes.
    On the other hand, a simple wish to own
    a particular sort of firearm is not in itself
    “good reason” without further supporting
    evidence of intentions. Chief officers of
    police should be mindful of case law
    (Anderson v Neilans (1940) and Joy v Chief
    Constable of Dumfries and Galloway (1966))
    which suggests that the chief officer should
    consider the application firstly “from the
    standpoint of the applicant rather than from
    that of a possible objector”. “Good reason”
    will need to be demonstrated for each firearm
    to be held under section 1 of the 1968 Act.
    Go and see the thread How many deer rifles do you have ? some members have 4,5 or 6 deer legal calibres. None of them 'need' so many guns, they want them and have a good reason so the police haven't got much choice but to grant them.

    You cannot have a .22RF for vermin without land. I would put in for all you want. I would also make sure you are a member of a shooting organisation (such as the BASC) as it shows you are insured for field shooting and you can get assistance if you have a problem with your application.

  8. #8
    hello im no expert but you may have to put target shooting to get your firearms and apply for use on vermin and deer at a later date as i dont think they will grant an open license straight away however you do have shooting experience so im not sure
    i know i needed to put down expanding ammo and use of a moderator for each caliber as well as use on deer fox and vermin
    now if you have a day stalking booked then then that should be sufficent for the police for your deer condition (dont forget to put down fox for 243 and 223 as well)
    try speaking to your firearms officer if they are sensible or a local rfd they will have a good idea of how your local constabulary work
    good luck mate just be persistant and it will pay off

  9. #9
    Cheers gr1ffer, it's good to get some encouragement. I'm definitely going to book another stalk to help my cause. You're right - persistence definitely pays off in this game. All the best J

  10. #10
    Thanks Steve. Yep, my mistake re .243. I'm going to book another stalk to help the cause. Cheers chap J

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