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Thread: Is the Buck mine? a hypothesis.

  1. #1
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    Is the Buck mine? a hypothesis.

    I was just getting up this morning (06:45ish, I'm not a particularly early riser) when I heard what sounded like a gunshot outside. At first I wasn't sure where it had come from but it sounded quite close. This concerned me because, if it was a gunshot, it sounded like it had to have been either fired on or at my own land or on very nearby land. Now, since my son and I are really the only people allowed to shoot on my farm (the occasional guest excepted) and he's living in Edinburgh just now and I also have the vermin shooting of all the neighbouring farms it struck me as a wee bit off that someone might be shooting so close without my knowledge. Of course there might have been another reason for the bang....

    So, within minutes of hearing the noise I was out and about looking to see what was a going on. Our house is about 350yds from the main road, but that's just a quiet wee back road. Anway, out I goes and I hears some comotion, folks talking and shouting... sounded like they were either at the farm road end or on the main road. Then, as I walked in the direction of the voices I see two people in one of my fields next to the woods and a dark coloured 4x4 on the road. "Hey fellasl!" "whatcha think yer doin?" (Mobile phone in hand and enough distance between me and them for a hasty retreat if it gets nippy looking) I shouts. Up looks the laddos, about 200yds from me and 100yds from the 4x4. I got no answer.... they legged it. I legged it after them but they're in the passenger doors of the 4x4 and they're off. I never got close enough to get a reg number, never even saw the guy's faces (at least I'm pretty sure they were guys, and damned quick on their toes at that, or maybge I'm not so quick as I once was... whatever)

    Anyhow, of course I'm thinking, "poaching gits"... wonder if they hit anything. Mind you, at this point, I'm also smiling to myself and thinking well... at least it was poachus interruptus, better go see what the rest of story is. Walked over to roughly where our local "Usain Bolt impersonators" started their run from and.......Booger me... they've only nailed that 6 point buck that I've been watching for weeks now and waiting on him cleaning his velvet off (which, btw, he still hadn't even started to do yet). Of all beasts to 'kin poach "the barstewars". He's in great nick and without doubt would actually have been the best I'd taken off the farm if I'd got him.

    So, I've no Reg Number, No visual ID of speedy boy or his mate/s, I didn't even recognise the 4x4 as local. All I've got is one cracking Roe-buck, half gralloched when I found him and now dressed and hanging in my larder.

    Here's my dilemma.... Is the carcase lawfully mine?

    p.s. I live in Scotland, Scots law prevails... or at least it should prevail... we'll see.

  2. #2
    The deer would be the landowners on were it died but because it was caught through a criminal act it becomes evidence and as i understand it because it was not viewed by a trained hunter before it died then it cannot go into the food chain. Just haveing a guess ?

  3. #3
    i dont know on the leagle standing but sorry to here you have had poachers hopefully they wont be back in a hurry,atb wayne

  4. #4
    You should contact the highway agency to see if they can provide any road camera photographic evidence of the vehicle. register it with the local police, and if you can ID the vehicle from any potential photographic evidence (you know, from the little blue camera's, etc.) then why should you not be able to get them prosecuted?

    oh, the carcass is deffo yours to keep.

    sorry to hear of the loss of your 6 pointer, I'd be raging!

  5. #5
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    I'm a bit more concerned now. I checked and apparently it's an offence to be in possession of a deer killed unlawfully (Section 23 deer Scotland act) unless you've taken possession for the purpose of detecting or preventing crime....Have I?

    BTW... 6pointer's right about it being evidence too, which I hope I don't get into trouble for tampering with and no-way can it enter the human food chain. Better hand it over to the Polis, I guess. I'm certainly not going to claim "possession" now.

    Had to laugh at the idea of road cameras, we've hardly got functioning roads in this part of the country, forget cameras, the nearest one is in Biggar and that's miles away -in the wrong direction- (camera that is, functioning roads start in Peeblesshire) and anyway, I've no idea what main roads they used after they left me and our wee side road.

    Just to make it more complicated, this morning I've spoken to a neighbouing farmer who says, he has let some friends of the pheasant syndicate on his ground have his deer shooting, he didn't have any contact info to hand but will try and get back to me. He gave me many apologies for not saying sooner but hadn't really thought he needed to tell me, which was fair enough since I don't phone him up everytime I let someone shoot here. So, I'll have to wait and see if it was them.

    I forgot to say, the only gunshot wound was in the boiler house area OK but just a wee bit far back, one lung holed and a bit of diaphram damage. Small entry and smallish exit wounds, between ribs. So, I hope it doesn't turn out to be the neighbour's shooters following up a wounded animal and they've taken fright at me shouting, or next thing I'll maybe also be in trouble for upsetting them and intimidating as they went about their lawfuls... yaddah, yaddah....

  6. #6
    Legits don't run away. So forget that one.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo123p View Post
    Legits don't run away. So forget that one.
    I thought that by definition, "leg'its" WOULD run away

  8. #8
    back to the question, the deer is theirs until you can proove it is is rightfully yours. In cases like that although it was 'obviously' poached, there is not a lot you can do right away because you did not see them do the deed so to speak. The police would follow up the complaint but even if they turned up right away they poachers could just say they shot it on their permission and chose to gralloch it there. It would be their word against yours in that respect and that won't get to court.

    In your case they legged it so one deer dead but yours without any doubt

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by paul at barony View Post
    back to the question, the deer is theirs until you can proove it is is rightfully yours. In cases like that although it was 'obviously' poached, there is not a lot you can do right away because you did not see them do the deed so to speak. The police would follow up the complaint but even if they turned up right away they poachers could just say they shot it on their permission and chose to gralloch it there. It would be their word against yours in that respect and that won't get to court.
    Paul- Tamus stated that carcass and 'barstewards' were on his land, therefore under Part 3 Section 17 of the D(S)Act the 'barstewards' were committing an offence as they did not have permission to shoot on his ground. Even if they had not committed a Section 17 offence in that they shot it on their side of the boundary, Section 17(2)it is also illegal to remove a deer shot on your land which then runs over the boundary without the landowners consent on where the carcass falls as the landowner has ownership.

    Section 23- In my opinion Tamus, as you have the shooting rights on your ground there is no offence as you can take/shoot deer within the confines of the Act and the carcass in your possession is 'legal'. Section 23 offences relate to where someone shoots or takes a deer or has a fire arm with intention to commit an offence on ground that they do not have rights or procure a carcass from the events of an offence where no rights are held or it is contrary to the Act..

    I would agree with Davie that venison cannot enter the food chain, however, subject to you inspecting and being happy that free from disease/infection you can personally consume or give to friends and family for free, but not for barter or sale.
    Last edited by firsttimer; 18-05-2011 at 15:50.

  10. #10
    yeh, I know but... You can't decide if they commited and offence that's up to the police and courts so forget section xyz, it was Tamus's deer the second they pegged it but not before the left it after being rumbled.

    Do you see what I mean now?

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