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Thread: Dropping to a Shot

  1. #1

    Dropping to a Shot

    ( quote One theory I have heard is that with a high heart shot it sends a pulse wave of blood up the main artery to the brain cause instance black out and then death, whether this is true I donít know may be our vet could comment.

    If a high heart shot is used it can cause massive trauma to the main blood vessels such as the aorta and vena cava, once this happens a almost instant drop in blood presure occurs followed by unconciousness and death. In a low heart or purely lung shot the haemorraging takes longer and therefore the animal can run, further if adrenalised. end of quote )

    I have moved the question from Thar and Mack to the Deer Welfare Section so it doesn't get lost.
    Physiology of the heart. Heart muscle has the inherent capacity to beat itself which is modified by nerve and hormonal control amongst which is adrenaline.

    A shot hitting the top of the heart when the top chambers are full destroys them and most of the connecting blood vessels : loss of blood. This gives hydrostatic pressure back flow and little or no blood gets through to the lower chambers , hence they beat on empty and no new blood is pulsed around the body. no blood no connection.
    Shot hits when upper chambers are empty. all the blood is in the lower part ready or already down the arteries so no new pulse following.
    A shot in the lower chambers makes a hole. When these are full large hole: more blood escapes. When the muscle contracts smaller hole: less blood escapes and some goes up the arteries but there is still blood returning to the heart. So the brain still gets some oxygen until not sufficient blood in system.
    A condition called muscle memory comes into play. This is actually a misnomer. What really happens are the nerve pathways to the muscles are honed to perfection. So creating a super highway: extra fast response. So dying but still able to move.
    Catching practice in cricket is to build up this muscle memory so that fielders react immediately to a chance of a catch.
    Dropping on the spot after every shot. Unfortunately the spot the animal drops on is not always the position it was on when bullet strikes due to muscle memory but that is another story.
    morena

  2. #2

    Highe heart

    I took a nice buck last night 40lbs dressed out, he was hit squarely high heart lungs and ran 70m and droped under a high seat.

    NB I wasn't shooting from the high seat.

    I have had deer shot low to mid heart that have droped on the spot! but as a rule I have found high heart drops on the spot and mid to low gives you a strong runner that will drop within 10 or so seconds.

    Dave

  3. #3
    Davie
    Guest
    Great post Morena I have had every reaction imaginable and some times can't believe how far the deer makes it with only a little of the heart left or no lungs and a damaged heart . i Will look at it differently now and if any one asks how did that run like that i will use your post. Should be good for the posing aspect .

  4. #4
    Well, thanks for the input one and all. I think I've had my question answered but hadn't realised it would spark such interest.

    The only other thing that occured to me was a bullet fragment hitting the spine. If I do get such a deer I will inspect the spine closely.

    The rate at which we are munching through the venison that might be sooner rather than later.

    S.

  5. #5

    Buck

    I had an interesting one early this buck season, I shot one at about 130m it kicked out one leg and ran off in to thick sitka spruce. I did the follow up and getting to the point of impact there was loads of hair and not a drop of blood I thought I must have gone hight and crased the spine or low and caught the brisket.

    I waited a good long while and went for my lab, we started the follow up and found the buck 30m in to the spruce with a perfect high heart lung shot.

    I cant undrstand why there wasn't a single drop of blood spilt because sormaly I get a good out shot the splashes along the trail especialy if the animal has changed direction.

    Dave

  6. #6
    A very knowledgable thread. Thanks for the explanation Morena, now i have to try and take it in.
    basil.

  7. #7
    Best best way to see this in action is to take two 4pint plastic milk containers put an inch of water in one and fill the other to the top.

    Now take them to your range and set them up 100m away

    Shoot the almost empty one first.

    Yes you did hit it you will see later!

    Now shoot the full one

    You will find the full one 'exploded' and the other one just has a small neat calibre sized hole through both the entry and exit sides of the container.

    The effect on the heart of an animal is just the same.

  8. #8

    Re: Buck

    Quote Originally Posted by devilishdave
    I had an interesting one early this buck season, I shot one at about 130m it kicked out one leg and ran off in to thick sitka spruce. I did the follow up and getting to the point of impact there was loads of hair and not a drop of blood I thought I must have gone hight and crased the spine or low and caught the brisket.

    I waited a good long while and went for my lab, we started the follow up and found the buck 30m in to the spruce with a perfect high heart lung shot.

    I cant undrstand why there wasn't a single drop of blood spilt because sormaly I get a good out shot the splashes along the trail especialy if the animal has changed direction.

    Dave
    dave did you examine the carcass? when skinned
    as you say, you saw the leg kick out, are we talking a front leg or hind leg as this may hav a bearing on the outcome of the shot and bullet head performance
    this is purely for my research folder, so any info would be gratefull
    stone

  9. #9

    Re: Buck

    Quote Originally Posted by devilishdave
    I had an interesting one early this buck season, I shot one at about 130m it kicked out one leg and ran off in to thick sitka spruce. I did the follow up and getting to the point of impact there was loads of hair and not a drop of blood I thought I must have gone hight and crased the spine or low and caught the brisket.

    I waited a good long while and went for my lab, we started the follow up and found the buck 30m in to the spruce with a perfect high heart lung shot.

    I cant undrstand why there wasn't a single drop of blood spilt because sormaly I get a good out shot the splashes along the trail especialy if the animal has changed direction.

    Dave
    Sometimes lung tissue, fat or with small Muntjac intestines pulled through the diaphragm will plug the exit resulting in little or no blood at the poi and no blood trail either. When the deer crashes to the floor it can dislodge the blockage. If I can find them I have CD of photos showing entry, exit, poi and blood trail of a number of roe shot in the snow you will be quite surprised at the small amount of sign on some of the pictures.

  10. #10
    Took a couple of roe from a high seat, both with a .308win in 150gr Nosler BST from the same rifle.
    Both were hit broadside and on the gralloch were found to be high heart shot. One dropped on the spot, the other ran 30yds or so.
    The difference?
    The stopper didn't know what was coming the runner looked at me before I pulled the trigger.
    Adrenaline kept the second one going?
    G

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