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Thread: Vermin & Fox Legal

  1. #1

    Vermin & Fox Legal

    I want a CF rifle for vermin control & Fox ideally a 20 cal CF, I want one rifle I can take out and legally take general vermin, rabbits, birds, hares and Fox or be able to use .223 for vermin, already have it for Birds (mainly used on Canada Geese).

    I already have 17HMR, 22RF for vermin, then 223 & 22-250 for Fox on open ticket

    Anyone with Merseyside FAC got this condition / rifle combination.

    FLO will only allow .17 Rem or .22 Hornet for Vermin & Fox, would like to see if they practice what they preach.

    I will apologise in advance if this subject has already been covered in depth

    FlyBoy270

  2. #2
    Just crack on with your 223. Anyone know of anyone ever had a problem using a rifle outside of the conditions?

  3. #3
    There's no reason why they shouldn't.... I have .223 for fox and vermin
    "It's halfway down the hill, directly below that tree next to a rock that looks like a bell-end"

    Good deals with ~ deako ~ sakowsm ~ dryan ~ 2734neil ~ mo ~ riggers ~ mmbeatle ~ seanct ~ an du ru fox

  4. #4
    Si
    Which Force are you under?
    FlyBoy270

  5. #5
    FlyBoy270,

    Plenty of forces have no objection to allowing all kinds of CF rifles for vermin - .308 for me in D&C, others have larger calibres.

    Once initial 'good reason' is established for possessing a rifle, possibly using the chart at the end of Chapter 13 of the HO Guidance, (you have read it haven't you?), then the same rifle should be allowed for any lesser quarry to the left of that column. It's actually mentioned elsewhere in the Guidance as per:

    13.15 Most rifle cartridges were designed for
    specific purposes but may be suitable for a
    range of other quarry. The table on page 77
    provides guidance on whether, for the
    purposes of establishing “good reason”, a
    particular calibre is suitable for shooting
    certain quarry. “Yes” indicates that the calibre
    is suitable for the purpose and pursuit of
    such quarry would normally be a “good
    reason” to possess such a rifle. “No”
    indicates that the calibre and muzzle energy is
    either unsuitable, unlawful or inhumane and
    pursuit of such a quarry would not therefore
    be a “good reason” to possess such a rifle.


    &

    13.14 “Good reason” to possess particular
    firearms will generally be linked to the quarry
    species found on the land concerned, for
    example on a farm or estate. However,
    conditions for the possession of such
    firearms should allow the certificate holder to
    deal with reasonable eventualities, for example
    pest or game species or the humane
    destruction of injured animals on the estate.


    BASC also have a Guidance/Fact Sheet on their website that in essence says the same.

    So, on that basis both the .223 and 22.250 that you already possess fit the bill perfectly for fox and vermin. The question is whether you are willing to push the issue with your issuing force should they prove to be intransigent, (read stupid), over the matter?

    If you are a member of BASC you might want to get them involved. If not I can recommend SACS as an excellent organisation who are willing to get involved in firearms matters on behalf of their ordinary membership - we each have 100,000 legal liability insurance cover for such eventualities.
    Last edited by Orion; 20-06-2011 at 21:17.

  6. #6
    Guys,

    I'm not aware of any member of this Forum posting that they have been pulled by plod on any FAC issue whilst in the field.

    You are not going to get a "100% cast iron guarantee" on anything with regard to "your force, firearm and circumstance of use within issuing force and, or outside issuing force".

    Just get on with life and be safe and sensible.

    BASC, NGO et al can really only achieve something once plod have started an action against you and the balance is in your favour.

    Stan

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyBoy270 View Post
    I want a CF rifle for vermin control & Fox ideally a 20 cal CF, I want one rifle I can take out and legally take general vermin, rabbits, birds, hares and Fox or be able to use .223 for vermin, already have it for Birds (mainly used on Canada Geese).

    I already have 17HMR, 22RF for vermin, then 223 & 22-250 for Fox on open ticket

    Anyone with Merseyside FAC got this condition / rifle combination.

    FLO will only allow .17 Rem or .22 Hornet for Vermin & Fox, would like to see if they practice what they preach.

    I will apologise in advance if this subject has already been covered in depth

    FlyBoy270
    Im in North Wales and haev a .17hmr Vermin only but 22.250 for vermin, fox and deer also have a 6.5 x 55 for fox adn deer (possible ticket has vermin also but will check).

  8. #8
    Sussex will allow .204 for vermin and fox.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by smullery View Post
    Guys,

    I'm not aware of any member of this Forum posting that they have been pulled by plod on any FAC issue whilst in the field.

    You are not going to get a "100% cast iron guarantee" on anything with regard to "your force, firearm and circumstance of use within issuing force and, or outside issuing force".

    Just get on with life and be safe and sensible.

    BASC, NGO et al can really only achieve something once plod have started an action against you and the balance is in your favour.
    I'm not quite sure how you can say that Stan. Isn't it better to get all the details on your FAC, especially conditions, sorted before they start any action against you?

    For information I have been pulled over for a breach of condition (S5 equipment) which arose because of contradictory and uneccessary wording on my FAC, (my conditions at the time had to have an A5 attachment they were so long and convoluted), so it does happen. And when it does and they start an investigation against you that may result in loss of FAC, livelihood and possibly a prosecution, it tends to focus your thinking on what can and might go wrong. All it takes is one over-zealous PC, an anti or even a public spirited member of the public to start the ball rolling.

  10. #10
    Orion,

    There is no cast iron guarantee.

    Each Chief Constable and every PC can interpret the guidlines differently.

    BE SENSIBLE.

    Guidlines already permit Fox but don't mean you MUST have it as a condition on your FAC.

    Boar are "legal" so why worry about lack of specific on your FAC. Same goes for Wild Goat.....

    Don't even think about mentioning Big Cats, there, you just thought about it

    On your personal side, Something started because of "their contradiction". And the result seems that you have what problems? You seem to have carried on OK.



    Stan

    just get real and get on with life.

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