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Thread: Use of Expanding Ammunition on Courses

  1. #1

    Use of Expanding Ammunition on Courses

    Hi I was talking to a guy down at Bisley last weekend.

    He was told when he enquired about the course that he would have to use FMJ ammo for the shooting assessmnet.

    Is this information correct?

  2. #2
    No, this is not correct. It entirely depends on what restrictions are on his FAC. Nobody has addressed this particular requirement to me so I can only assume it must have been another course.

  3. #3
    Hi HME Thanks for the reply

    It was someone without an FAC that I was on about.

    What conditon would need to be on an FAC for expanding ammo to be used for the assessment?

    Would the shooting of blah blah blah and zeroing be ok?

  4. #4
    Anyone taking the shooting test who is a non FAC holder will have to use non expanding ammunition for the test in an estate rifle, the owner of that firearm will have to have Target shooting with non expanding ammunition written on their FAC and must have authority to shoot over the land where the test is being conducted (unless he is a club member - see later). A non FAC holder is not allowed to have access to expanding ammunition for target shooting, a FAC holder on the other hand is allowed to shoot targets with expanding ammunition under the "Zeroing" condition on their ticket which encompasses practice providing the range allows this (which I do). Unfortunately a grey area exists here which has yet to be tested by law, taking a test may not be considered practicing, so to adhere 100% to the letter of the law "Target shooting" should be written on the FAC. When anyone takes a course with me they are made a Temporary member of the club and are then covered by home office guidelines for clubs which allows the shooting of targets with either expanding ammunition (but not in a competition) if they are a FAC holder with that condition on their ticket or with Non expanding ammunition through a club rifle or one of my or another members rifles. Simple!

    Before anyone jumps on me with their vastly superior knowledge, these are the guidelines laid down by the home office and which two local constabularies are happy for me to operate under, the head of the firearms licensing for one of them sits on the board of ACPO for firearms licensing so if he is happy I'm not about to argue.

    Hope that helps.

  5. #5
    Thanks HME

    Have DMQ very resently changed the rules to allow this?

    As up until very recently the shooting assessment MUSTalways have been taken using expaning ammunition.

  6. #6
    Not on my range. Please tell me exactly where it says that. I am not really sure where this is going. When it comes to firearms legislation I take my advice from the home office, if DMQ know better then good for them. I don't know what you are trying to prove here but if one of the DMQ officials wants to be the test case if something goes wrong then good luck to them.

  7. #7
    HME no axe to grind

    But it would be a shame for people to pay hard earned money to do the DSC1 and not then pass because they had used target ammo.

    Why not check with DMQ and get it in writting that target ammo can be used.

    You could even post the reponse from DMQ in the training thread so that everone knows the new changes.

    The second thing is I didnt think you could have temporary membership of a HO Approved gun club in fact isnt it expressly forbiden in the HO Gun Club rules.

  8. #8
    Guys why argue with Paul (HME).

    He is identifying availablity on a DSC Level 1 course at a good price. I have used the ranges (used for the assessement) and the set up is very professional. I have no doubt Paul knows what he is talking about as he is running a professional business.....i seriously doubt he could, if he didn't know what he was on about.

    Why air opinions on here unless you know FACT what your on about? Surely that is what the PM facility is used for?

    Before anyone has a go at me, i don't have anything to do with the course, Paul or the ranges (other than the fact i have used it once) or the 'discussion' on the thread.

    Just one question though....why would using non-expanding ammo cause you to fail the shooting test? You just need to change zero, which i am sure you could do before taking the test!

  9. #9
    Having run DDM and BDS ranges, when RCO Qualification was current, I was always under the impression that Deer related courses, ie level 1 and 2 had to be run under conditions as would be used when actually stalking.
    This would require the use of Soft or hollow point ammo, however I have never noticed any difference in the hole in the target and provided it was in the correct place, who could tell the difference between either bullet by just looking at the hole.
    I am sure the assessor isn't going to check ammo of each firer before firing and he certainly isn't going to dig it out of the sand.

  10. #10
    J Blane

    Sorry but you're wrong. I would suggest you look at the HO guidance VERY carefully before casting assumptions on a public forum.


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