Where have the old boys gone

bigmur

Member
Over the last 2 weeks on my local permission I've noticed an increase of yearling bucks I've took 3 this week and seen another 4 now I'm not complaining about the successful stalking but I'm concerned that I'm no longer seeing the quality bucks I've been watching throughout the season I was wondering if this has happened anywhere else and possible reasons
Any thoughts would be much appreciated as this is only my second season cheers folks
 
Probaly culled ! ?
I myself has struggled to see any decent bucks this year let alone any buck strange to me as i seem as well as most there seem to be not seeing many buck's at all this season. Is it because it has bin fairly dry regaurding the rain does that make them show ? They seem to be lieing low through the country certaainly here in Cumbria.
 
Very possible muir . The land I'm stalking is arable farm so the landowner is not impressed seeing these brazen youngsters all over his crops so unfortunately it's either me or someone else I'm taking it these are bucks who have Been chased off by territotorial bucks on the neighbouring wood but the fact there all coming on my permission makes me wonder why there not being chased off by the older bucks here
 
How many yearling/young bucks were taken earlier? Is it possible they have mobbed the older bucks out?
 
I took 7 young/ yearling bucks and 1 mature buck who was suffering from Turkish slippers . I have shot this area for over 7 years only taking the stalking more seriously over the last 2 years so I'm certainly no expert but I'd say 7 was bang on for this area . Until last time trip home I was still seeing the usual mature bucks and the odd 1 or 2 youngsters but these looked like promising prospects but now I'm just seeing these incomers
 
In my experience, the big boys are not too territorial, they wander from area to area, returning to their favoured places in the rut, when they move to a new area, normally quieter area the young ones clear off, onl to dissappear off to another area when the big boy comes back to his first place. The big boys will reside in quiet areas so less young bucks means more chance of big boys, infact through spring I find the big boys prefer areas with less does as well
 
There are many on this forum who speak of managing deer on their permissions. Is this truly possible? IMO unless your permission is many hundreds of acres and you spend many hours on the ground moulding your deer by selective culling or unless you are part of a collaborative deer management policy with all your neighbours and their neighbours, all actively contributing to an agreed deer management plan for the complete area (not always possible as each neighbour may have a different view as to deer on their ground) and so making up hundreds of combined acres, all you as the stalker on your permission maybe witnessing is only part of the deer picture in your area. You have taken 7 youngsters but is it possible that the more mature bucks that you seek are to be found on neighbouring land where they may prefer to be at this time of year. They may already be shot by a neighbouring stalker who believes he is leaving some good young bucks that he has previously seen on his ground to take forward the future of his deer not considering that a neighbouring stalker on whose ground they now are has shot them.
IMO many recreational stalkers consider that they manage deer but in reality this is not the case. The stalker/syndicate does not have the available time to study the deer on his/their ground/surrounding ground so as to create an effective cull policy based on sustainable management. In most cases it is a matter of travelling to their ground and culling what is seen/available on the ground at that time of year.
This is not a criticism of anybody. It is to me what governs what you see and ultimately what you shoot.
 
I would bet your old buck for that area has been culled or killed on the roads i have and area in Lanarkshire that i have took 11 young bucks off but only after i removed the resident big lads . Out saturday morning and i saw in the area two very special bucks and they will i am sure hold the full area for the rut. Other big bucks are still there and are now to be seen walking with does in stead of sullking up the hedge and fence lines. Dicky Boy i have stalk Roe deer for a long time and while there will be changes in there movement as food supply dictates one thing is for sure if the big old bucks are in a good place in the spring they will be there untll the rut is finnished. Also alot of territorys are quite small takeing in just a few fields so roe can be managed if thats what you want to do.
This buck was seen on saturday evening a very big buck of medal quality but had he been stood any were else in field or had he not moved i would never have seen him ps dont pull me for my photo work its harder than shooting:lol:

11-7-2011007.jpg


THE SAME DEER CROPPED JUST FOR SHOW

bignewbuck.jpg
 
Last edited:
Not an expert by any means but from my observations a mature buck will stay in roughly the same place most of the time. Then from what I've seen during the rut he may wander further looking for more "action".
As for managing the population..... you can to a certain degree but not fully unless the area in question was fenced off to prevent escape or entry and no one else was shooting there as there will always be movement between territories.
 
I've always been under the impression that the older bucks move around quite a bit, so including them in your management plan is only purposeful if you have a significant amount of land, or if you see and ID them individually quite frequently (indicating territoriality). The yearlings represent 60% of my cull target, 30% are older beasts, with 10% being in the middle aged category (at least,,,,that's the goal!)...The first step of course, is to identify of what number these ratios should come from. On one peice of land I have, I estimate around 100 deer population, this is the number I see as suitable for the size of the land, and which the farmer is happy with too. So I set up to cull 30% pa, of which:
a. 18 are yearlings
b. 9 are older deer
c. 3 are middle aged

I will always take those which look ill or injured first, then move on to those that are weaker, and finally those that are just available to cull..Now that's my 'ideal' plan, but rarely does it work out - but it gives me something to work towards at least.

If I estimate 30 bucks on my grounds, the yearling cull will be 5-6 (ie. 30% of 30 is 9, of which 60% (5-6) are yearlings). Then I will look for 1 middle aged buck that's either not in too great shape, etc. The 3 older bucks will be taken based on my luck and the size of the trophy - these guys are my 'thank you's' to myself, except if there's an ill animal, they will take priority of course.

I will repeat the same exercise with the does.

Eventually, I hope to end up with a doe to buck ratio and a spread age demographic which is healthy, sustainable, and which I (and the farmer) is/are pleased with.

There's no doubt that if you want to have a good number of trophy bucks, you can't have a bunch of marauding yearling bucks running around the place,.that might mean the older buck is on your neighbours ground, and have thrown them away to your grounds.

My belief is also that when syndicates can work against proper deer management and actually do worse for tree plantations! ie. syndicate members tend to travel a bit to get stalking (I'm not trying to generalise, so please don't take offense), and will prefer to take bucks (the bigger the better) to does, and might not get together very frequently to set and review cull plans, take deer counts, etc. etc. etc. Therefore what you can see is an increasing doe population eating the top shoots, as well as an increasing yearling/young buck population (bad for fraying), as the older trophy bucks are shot off, and are no longer around to kick the young yearling bucks off their territories.

IMHO, deer management has got to be done right and taken with a degree of a scientifc approach, but for smaller grounds such as say below 500 acres, there's hardly a point, so management should be more about ensuring you don't cull too much of the doe/buck population, and to cull any animals that are ill and injured - in these cases, take a 'general' approach, and don't waste time being to scientific. from 1000 acreas up, I think you can start thinking in terms of numbers for deer population purposes...again, just my opinions based on reading and my experiences...but I'm no pro, nor an old gamekeeper, so take my thoughts for their face value, not wisdom
 
Well folks all opinions are much appreciated as I say I'm still learning and this site has certainly helped with alot of things . Unfortunately it's time to head back to work so we will see if the big lads show face in a fortnights time
 
Back
Top