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Thread: Swarovski vs Kahles vs S&B vs Zeiss scope help required!

  1. #1

    Swarovski vs Kahles vs S&B vs Zeiss scope help required!

    Need some advice from the Swaro/Kahles and Zeiss owners

    am looking for a stalking scope (hill and wood, red and roe...some fox)
    happy to consider fixed mag in something like 8x56 (would I notice the difference with 8x50?) but would like a variable for mixture of range and stalking.
    It is irritating not being able to see a 4" bull at 150yds behind big fat plex reticle! and if I do plan on shooting foxes it would be nice to see them a bit further out.
    Ideally needs to be 30mm if possible or I am forking out 40-50 for more rings. not sure if I will notice the difference between 1" and 30mm when it comes to light etc.

    looking to spend less than 8-900 if possible.

    I have a S&B 4-12 on a 270 so I know they are bullet proof, clear and utterly dependable.
    I know nothing about the Zeiss range, the guy at the game fair was less than useless as explaining the ranges to me.
    Swaro clearly have a very good name and a very healthy price tag.
    I have heard good things about Kahles but again dont have one so cant be sure.


    spent the morning perusing the web and various gun shops with 2nd hand and new and came up with these:

    Second hand

    Kahles 8X50 ILL. RET 569.99 ex demo 1" tube
    Kahles 4.5-18x50 875 1" tube
    Kahles 2.5-10x50 plex 795 1" tube
    S&B 8x56 399
    Swaro 8x56 575.00
    Swaro AV 6-18X50 BR 850 (never heard of AV range)
    Swaro 6-24X50 PLEX 795 (no box)

    New
    Zeiss 8x56 642
    S&B 8x56 A7 fine 756 (A4F is 562 but I quite like the fine one)
    S&B 8x56 Illum 900
    Swaro 8x56 805
    Zeiss Duralyt 3-12x50 670 (what is the difference between Classic and Duralyt!?)
    Zeiss Classic 3-12x50 957
    Kahles Helia C 3-12x56 795

    No there is a lot to choose from with similar 7-900 price tags.
    Some of this is linked to me shifting a scope I have for sale either on part ex or private sale but........where do I put my money!?

    The S&B 8x56 looks good value new, but then so does the Swaro 8x56 2nd hand! will I really notice the difference between Swaro and S&B both in 8x56?
    I am slightly put off by the 1" tube and the 50mm Objectives on the Kahles but am not sure if that is naive.
    The swaro 6-18x50 looks good but the AV bit and the price makes me think it is a very old range.
    I dont know if I am ignoring Zeiss because I have never looked through one or they just dont seem to have the same name for quality as S&B and Swaro.

    please help!
    Last edited by bewsher500; 19-07-2011 at 15:25.

  2. #2
    The Swaro AV's are 1" tube for the US market. I might give them a miss.

    Fixed is fine, there is a Swaro PF 8x50 4a in the classifieds here for 500, an excellent buy.

    Check out MacLeod's used listings. There is a Swaro 3-12x50 in your price range, plus a Swaro 6-24x50 with a TDS 4 for 895.

    You will pay a lot of extra money for illumination. I am not entirely convinced it is required.
    Brian.

    Just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to get you......

  3. #3
    I'd consider Zeiss Classic Diavari 2.5 - 10 x 50 T*

    with ret no. 42 for that slightly longer shot on Charlie...

    comes in at 915 at Uttings...will last longer than you will...a Patek Phillipe of the scope market IMHO.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by PKL View Post
    I'd consider Zeiss Classic Diavari 2.5 - 10 x 50 T*
    with ret no. 42 for that slightly longer shot on Charlie...comes in at 915 at Uttings.
    what does the "Diavari" bit denote?
    that is 200 more than the 3-12x50 Duralyt
    and only 40 less than the Classic 3-12x56 at MacLeods
    .....see what I mean!? I am looking at the names, the spec and the prices and thinking which one is meant to be better than the next!? very poor marketing!

    Quote Originally Posted by Claret_Dabbler View Post
    The Swaro AV's are 1" tube for the US market. I might give them a miss.
    There is a Swaro PF 8x50 4a in the classifieds here for 500, an excellent buy.
    Check out MacLeod's , There is a Swaro 3-12x50, plus a Swaro 6-24x50 with a TDS 4 for 895.
    Good to know about the AV
    I saw the classifieds one and the MacLeod's ones
    Will I really notice the difference between 50 and 56mm?!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Claret_Dabbler View Post
    ...Check out MacLeod's used listings. There is a Swaro 3-12x50 in your price range, plus a Swaro 6-24x50 with a TDS 4 for 895....
    +1 on that. I think I recognise the TDS 4 as the one I traded in. Regards JCS

  6. #6
    most of the prices I have quoted are straight off the website.

    They offered me a (quite low) figure as a trade in on my Leupold so I will probably just sell that privately. I do realise they are not in the Leupold business but a 175 hit on the resale price for a 30 saving on a new scope from them does not make financial sense.

    John you once showed me a scope of yours at your house, would this one be it? very fine christmas tree style ret?

  7. #7
    I have the swaro 6-18 x 50 AV and its fantastic, works with nightsight, great light transmission really robust, I'm very happy with it....new from swillington

  8. #8
    If you want great value for money, and still a lifelong friend, you could opt for the S&B 8X56 Hungarian - plenty on the 2nd hand market too, so you could score a great deal. In this range I use the 6X42, and have NEVER regretted acquiring this scope, and don't think I'll ever sell it either TBH. Taken roe, reds, fox, all out to 300yds no problem, morning, evening, rain, sleet, snow..still great vision...dropped it, kicked it, shot it...still works (ok, now I'm over exaggerating)

  9. #9
    I have a Kahles 3.5-10x50 1" tube & a Swarovski 4-12x50 AV again a 1" tube (both sourced from the USA) & would be pushed to tell the difference optically, at very last light they both give excellent light transmission.

    Don't be put off by a 1" tube there is no real difference in my opinion when compared to a 30mm tube & don't think just because the AV range is a year or two old they are not any good, they are great value scopes.

    I also use a Swarovski PVI-2 6x24x50 with illuminated TDS-4 reticule on my .22-250 Tikka T3 & this is a brilliant scope. The illumination is an infinitely variable orange dot & the TDS-4 reticule makes hold over very easy.

    Chris.
    Life should be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving skidding in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming WOO HOO what a ride!

  10. #10
    The Kahles 8x50 is a lovely scope, but it is the front focal plane 4N illuminated reticle, so comparatively thick compared to second focal plane reticles (i.e. the ones that don't change size in variable models). The illumination is really only bright enough for low light but very good (not like modern ones which burn your retina but can be used in daylight for driven shoots). For what its worth, I'm sure you would notice no difference except possible better balance with an 8x50 compared to a 8x56
    The Swaro AV range has been re-introduced as the Z3 albeit with different tube and probably internals, but same glass. Good value but no illuminated models.
    Hope that helps a little...

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