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Thread: BMH crimes

  1. #1

    BMH crimes

    This information is free - which probably reflects its true worth

    Interesting conversation with the BMH Society chaps at the gundog tent, Game Fair, this morning.

    Gene pool in the UK was tiny but is growing slowly as people import.
    Some lines are KC registered, others not. Some early to the UK lines have well-known aggression issues and greed has driven significant breeding of hideously incompatible couples including brother/sister. Eye and hip problems and even, rarely, fitting, have surfaced in some lines - and still people have bred. BMH have also been bred with Labs, and bred for shorter legs than the standard.

    However, quarantine regs change in January 2012 from six months to 15 weeks, so it will will now be possible to bring a pup in and stand a good chance of bonding and training, thus avoiding - assuming a sensible, informed purchase - falling foul of the money-grabbing unethical shysters that, sadly, infect the dog world.
    KevinF -

  2. #2
    Kevin i have not seen to many BMH,s mate so can only comment on the 12 or so i have seen and they all were very soft indeed. The chap shaun i got mine from brought the mother to see me and i payed with here and roughed her up and all i can say is she was a doll no sign of aggression. I am not to sure about the breeding but she is an import and there is no imbreeding in her lines. Her legs are not long but with a small heal she would look good . I hope i am not the only one to believe this but if we use our dogs to find deer regulary. Then there is no problems,The biggest problem i see is the BMH society its self setting up rules that will only hold the breed back. If you have a good dog and it is a PROVEN WORKER. then it should be bred off you owe it to the breed. If you have a dog and its a bag of ***** and only finds one or two deer a year then get its tubes tied. Folling cold blood from sheep cows for 1000,s of yards dont impress me much (SHANIA TWANE 1997 ) It might also be a good idea if any one wants a puppy from these breeds to go out with the owner and watch them working there dogs.
    please remeber importing is not all it seems i rremeber the HWV getting sent to America from here and christ every sh it pup born would be sent there the best were kept back.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by 6pointer View Post
    ...The biggest problem i see is the BMH society its self setting up rules that will only hold the breed back.
    Davie -

    Which rules would they be?
    KevinF -

  4. #4
    Not to breed from a dog that is atleast three years old not to breed from a dog that has not passed a certain test they must be hip scored eye tested etc etc . Now if some of the regulations were not to breed off a dog that was not a hundred % worker we might get some were.
    Last edited by 6pointer; 24-07-2011 at 17:47.

  5. #5
    So 6p you would breed from your dog that in your own words will only follow a hot scent and think its a dog worthy of breeding from. Nothing wrong with getting your dog to follow a 1000 mtr cold blood trail, cow blood or deer blood. Doing that is called training.
    Any fool can get a dog to track a hot trail. Its obvious that the a BMH is wasted on you as you'll never get a develop a fraction of your dogs potential.
    Can't wait for your ad for BMH pups from a good working line. Skitsnack

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by KevinF View Post
    This information is free - which probably reflects its true worth

    Interesting conversation with the BMH Society chaps at the gundog tent, Game Fair, this morning.

    Gene pool in the UK was tiny but is growing slowly as people import. Some lines are KC registered, others not. Some early to the UK lines have well-known aggression issues and greed has driven significant breeding of hideously incompatible couples including brother/sister. Eye and hip problems and even, rarely, fitting, have surfaced in some lines - and still people have bred. BMH have also been bred with Labs, and bred for shorter legs than the standard.

    However, quarantine regs change in January 2012 from six months to 15 weeks, so it will will now be possible to bring a pup in and stand a good chance of bonding and training, thus avoiding - assuming a sensible, informed purchase - falling foul of the money-grabbing unethical shysters that, sadly, infect the dog world.

    The BMH club was only set up about 4 years ago and the BMH breed was only recognised by the kennel club about 5 years ago. Infact the litter I bought Todd from was one of the first to be registered by the KC.

    BMH have been in the country sometime but it is only recently that they have started to be sought after. The lines that are bred by good reputable breeders/stalkers are generally very good as they have been bought into the UK.

    I have seen a fair few Bavs and have never seen aggression in any of them. I do know that those people who cross bred have produced problem dogs. It is not that hard to get a good dog providing you use the right breeder, you may have to wait though

    Training a BMH is not straight forward, but I can say the rewards out way the frustration at times, and patience as they take about 2 years to come into their own.

    They are bred for working not pets, but the affection they show as a breed is remarkable.

    Sikamalc
    Last edited by sikamalc; 24-07-2011 at 20:48. Reason: extra line

  7. #7
    Your right Jagare the breed is waisted on me mate and i will be such a draw on its future development . I wish my dog would find a six week old dead cow at the end of a 1000 mtr trail christ i could get that bit of paper that would allow me to breed my dog under the society,s rule,s . Your right any one can get a dog to find a newly shot deer so why not a bmh .But then again why well because they might just be good at that as well no one rushing to give a certificate for that. But as a deer dog there is more requirment in my opinion than following old blood out of the freezer. My dogs need to work from the time they leave the car finding deer is only one part of the jigsaw and finding a wounded beast before it suffers is one of my top priority,s. But for my BMH i might now leave it to die slowly for a few days so i can prove she is made of the correct stuff.Or i could always enter her in a trail and get her to follow some old chap with his old well used washing up liquid bottle that will simulate the diying deer with the extra wee squerts for the blood beds. We could have a new adverts follows blood filled sweaty socks and will bark at taxidermy deer at the end. Garanteed to work .

  8. #8
    Davie -

    As far as I can see from the leaflet I have on my desk here, the BMH Society's Ethics list is short and sensible, aiming to uphold animal welfare, health and breed quality, while also providing some safeguards to potential owners.

    You are in agreement with the BMH Society over the principle that a proven working ability is a 'must.' You are happy with an informal test; they prefer a formal test.

    The 'Do not breed from a bitch that is less than two and a half years old' element of the BMH Society's ethics is elemental and, as far as I can see, a suggestion common to many breed societies.

    And are you really saying that inbreeding and cross-breeding are desirable, and that hip scoring is undesirable?
    Last edited by KevinF; 25-07-2011 at 08:28.
    KevinF -

  9. #9
    6p i think you have a phobia about training a dog properly. What has tracking a dead cow and all your other ramblings got to do with anything. Would you take a Spaniel or a lab out pheasant or even rough shooting when it was 12 weeks old? I dought it. So why take a young dog out with you stalking. Train it to track first. Simple.
    If i was going to buy a pup from you how are you going to show me what it can do. Will you show me how its parents can find a dead deer that you shot an hour ago and that lays dead in some bracken 50mtrs away. Big deal .
    You talk about not wanting to let a deer suffer and leaving it laying for several hours and that is why you have the dog with you. Do you wound that many? Or is it the truth that your dog really only finds deer that you have shot and you could have found your self if you had any field craft.
    At least i know that when I'm called out to track a 12hour old trail with my dog there is a goog chance he will find the animal.

    ALSO THERE IS NO NEED TO PM ME WITH THE SAME DRIVEL WRITEN IN CAPITAL LETTERS THAT YOU POST ON OPEN FORUM. YOU REALLY DO TALK UNMITIGATED CRAP.

  10. #10
    Kevin, the rules of the BMH Society are the same as any work dog breed club here in Sweden. I let a chap in Norway use my cocker dog as a stud dog he was Hip and eye scored before he was used. I know many will say that hip problems are very rare in spaniels and that is true, but by breeding from dogs that are hip and eye scored there is much less chance that problems will arise in the future.
    There were back problems in teckles here years ago. The Teckle club asked to be informed of all teckles with back problems and advised people not to breed from them. The
    incidence of back problems has been greatly reduced over the years.
    The BMH society guidelines are just commonsense, something lacking in a few dog owner, breeds out there.

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