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Thread: Subsonic & HV through the same scope

  1. #1

    Subsonic & HV through the same scope

    Folks, I'm currently waiting for my FAC. I have applied for .22LR, .17HMR, .22-250 and 12g.
    My funds are somewhat limited at the mo, so I've been thinking (very dangerous!): Just how much difference is there between the trajectories of the .22 subsonic and the .22 HV quick jobs?
    Can I zero with one round and simply have another spot on my crosshairs to use for the other?

  2. #2
    Firstly let me say that I have never found most Hyper velocity .22 R/F ammo to be very accurate or precise on target.. The best I found is the CCI velocitor but it does not match the tight grouping that Sub Sonic Winchester or Eley gives.. RWS did not perform so well in my rifles.

    Now to your question.. the only way to find out for sure is to try them I'm afraid.. Sometimes it happens that the difference in POI occurs on a nice easy spot on the scope reticle but others you'll find that it also shoots slightly to one side which makes things more trying in the field. You will have to suck it and see ............................ sorry.

    You will have to try different brands/weights to find which your rifle likes anyway so have fun doing it.

  3. #3
    What advantage do you see for the HV .22's?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Apache View Post
    What advantage do you see for the HV .22's?
    Range basically. I've asked for fox, which I will take with the 22-250, but some of 'my' fields are longer than I can reach (for rabbits) with an LR round. I reckon my priorities of purchase will be LR, 22.250, 12g then HMR.

    Brithunter: This was precisely why I asked. Should the only change be vertical? I notice when my air rifle starts to run low on CO2 that there is a horizontal shift as well as vertical.

  5. #5
    I use both rounds frequently. There is no scope setting that will let you jaunt from one round to the other. Depending on the rifling style and twist, there is a right-left shift as well as a vertical shift. In some cases the point of impact shift is severe. Aguila makes the fastest .22LR round with a 30 grain bullet at 1730 fps. With a 25M zero using standard, high velocity loadings (40 grain at 1250 fps) these rounds will hit 3" high and 1" left every time. Aguila also makes a 60 grain sub-sonic at 925 fps that will shoot 3" low and 1" right from the same Brno rifle, with the same sight setting. I usually compensate, mentally, or use a dedicated rifle for subs.

    I guess the "need" for high/hyper velocity ammunition depends on the shooting. If you were to cross trails of a very territorial prairie badger where I hunt you might want the raw power of the Velocitor that Brit mentioned. That is a 40 grain bullet at 1430 fps and it carried brute force for a .22, and it carries it farther than a Hyper velocity round would. The hyper vel rounds achieve the speed by using a light bullet that bleeds off velocity as you go down range. The Velocitor (or the faster, ballsier, Aguila Interceptor @ 1510) will do a better job at 100 yards.

    To make these light bullets function in your gun, they tend to put the mass of the bullet into the nose area; achieving a form that will feed and maintain the correct length, but having a shorter body (bearing surface) to contact the rifling. Ballistically speaking, they aren't very stable. Hence the deterioration of accuracy when compared to other .22 rounds. Fliers are common. For that reason, I shy away from "Stingers" and the Aguila 30 grain Super Maximum rounds. Instead I shoot the Velocitor or Interceptor 40 grain rounds when I want more power. Winchester makes a 33 grain HP at 1410 fps that shoots fine as well. Kind of a hyper velocity "light". I have hunted rabbits in the Highlands with JAYB and your rabbits lok to be the size of cockerspaniels when compared to our lanky jacks of fuzz-ball cottontails. The 40 grain hypers, tho not as pin-point accurate as others, will shoot 1 - 2" at 100 and are amply accurate enough for the bunnies we saw.

    For general shooting, I like the 38 grn HP and 40 grain solid, standard, high velocity bullets @ 1250 or thereabouts. My hands-down favorite is Aguila SE followed by CCI "Mini Mag". The Aguila will shoot with Eley subs, accuracy wise. Five shot groups under an inch @ 100 yards are common from a rifle that likes it. Lately, I have been shooting CCI "Blazer" 40 grain at 1250 fps. It is the cheap spread but groups tightly 95% of the time. Every once in a while I get a flier but at $125/5000 rounds I can live with it. The group below was shot at 100 yards last evening, on a wager no less, from my old Brno#1 with a 4X scope. With a 50 yard zero, I held the tip of the thick lower post of the duplex reticle about where the small "8" is below the bull. All five shots would have hit a US 1-cent piece. The 40 grain / 1250 rounds are a good choice when you want a little more power than subs.~Muir
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Muir; 14-08-2011 at 14:47.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Sausage Warrior View Post
    Range basically. I've asked for fox, which I will take with the 22-250, but some of 'my' fields are longer than I can reach (for rabbits) with an LR round. I reckon my priorities of purchase will be LR, 22.250, 12g then HMR.

    Brithunter: This was precisely why I asked. Should the only change be vertical? I notice when my air rifle starts to run low on CO2 that there is a horizontal shift as well as vertical.
    Hmmm should and are never seem to meet I am afraid to say. As Muir pointed out often it's influenced by the rifling twist but bedding can also play a part if it's not absolutely perfect. Shape of bullet also plays a part.. I once shot two .303 sporting rifles that were zeroed for normal MkV11 ball with some hand loads using the Hornady 180 Grain Round Nosed Soft Point, this was before the stupidity we have to deal with now about expanding bullets of course, one rifle shot high at 2 o'clock the other high at 10 o'clock the reason .......................... well one was a British No1 Mk111 sporterised by P-H and had left hand twist rifling the other a sporterised P-14 by century Arms with a new American made barrel with 6 lands of grooves of right hand twist.. The twist was causing the swerve left and right.

    So there you have it velocity, bullet shape and rifling form can and often will play a part in where bullets of differing profiles will impact on target. Makes it fun sussing it out though

  7. #7
    There's an excellent article by Byron Pace in the July edition of Sporting Rifle which deals with just this subject. If you can't get hold of it pm me and I'll see what I can do.

    fraser

  8. #8
    Excellent replies gents!
    I've just bored my wife senseless explaining my reasoning and the FEO's comments and the dimensions of the land I shoot on and I'm afraid to admit I think I've just done a 180.
    The HMR is looking like it has the lead (even though it is noisy and costs more) due to the consistent flat trajectory and the fact that my FEO thinks that due to it disintegrating if it hits as much as a blade of grass, will be the round that gets blanket approval.
    It's just as well I'm already bald as I have been on this roundabout for way too long and it's driving me bonkers.
    Thanks for the input, it has actually helped.
    Alan

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Sausage Warrior View Post
    Excellent replies gents!
    I've just bored my wife senseless explaining my reasoning and the FEO's comments and the dimensions of the land I shoot on and I'm afraid to admit I think I've just done a 180.
    The HMR is looking like it has the lead (even though it is noisy and costs more) due to the consistent flat trajectory and the fact that my FEO thinks that due to it disintegrating if it hits as much as a blade of grass, will be the round that gets blanket approval.
    It's just as well I'm already bald as I have been on this roundabout for way too long and it's driving me bonkers.
    Thanks for the input, it has actually helped.
    Alan
    Good luck on that one!
    Too bad. The 22LR is far more versatile and you don't have to rely on one, single maker for your quality standards or supply. ~Muir

  10. #10
    I'm desperately await the postman with that special delivery! Not only so I can stow the air rifle at the back of the safe, but to see just how he has designated the land.
    Can you expand on the 'versatile' comment please? I've heard it said elsewhere, but am having a hard of thinking moment here.
    Cheers

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