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Thread: FC disgusting practices in the Forest of Dean?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by WAYNE DAVIES View Post
    Tamas
    If you read all the results of all the research carried out by Defra on the Ross/FOD boar they are as pure bred as any wild boar in europe.

    I have no knowledge about other parts of the country.

    Atb

    Wayne
    Which actually allows for quite a bit of chromosomal variation. I have read the literature.

    And.... I said don't shoot the messenger

    Frankly the purity of the blood is only a side issue but is one which many in the wildboar business like to pretend doesn't exist, trades descriptions issues there for the producers y'know and of course the hunters want to hunt "wildboar" and shooting someone's escaped porky the hairy pig doesn't sound nearly so manly as hunting wildboar, does it?

    However, the issues I mentioned in my previous post are the core of the matter and the ramifications of ignoring those issues and trying to bring in new law which says they are a) wild and b)wildboar so as to then go on and allow for seasons etc, etc... would be a total morass of a concept which cannot be readily resolved.

    For instance; When Sabateurs release a sow or sows with piglets which have not yet been tagged, as they have been known to do, who takes the blame for what? Indeed, will anyone be proven to be to blame for anything?... Usually not. If the hunter shot a tagged sow?... That is a clear no-no, even once weaned she is evidently someone's property and that "someone" (the owner) would be entitled to recompense or perhaps to be held responsible for the unlawful release of an animal into the wild and maybe the damage arising too???. What about if a hunter subsequently shot an untagged piglet from such a sow as I mention above? What about the responsibilty for the initial escape? How could you know whether a piglet was an untagged escaped one (which had a definite owner) or was bred from a free living sow (maybe several generations from captivity) etc, etc, etc... and so we have the convoluted morass of a situation which now prevails and which cannot readily be swept aside.

    Basically a nationally agreed escaped hairy pig extermination scheme (agreed by all the relevant authorities and the producers) is about the only way to dodge all the issues and I'm fairly certain that's not going to happen either. It would cost far too much and though it might once have been contemplated, to prevent the spread of infection, in the days when home production of food was a protected interest, those days are gone.

    BTW Our court decision, in Scotland, established that the term wildboar is simply not applicable. At best they are just farmed Boar which are free living but should not be and certainly do not exist as native wild fauna in Scotland. I know some guys will tell you that's nonsense but it actually is the reasoned case.
    Last edited by Tamus; 07-09-2011 at 14:05.

  2. #62
    So how does it work with Sika in Scotland ? They were introduced deliberatly or not as the case may be many years back and they are regarded as wild. As many of the pigs escaped after the hurricane hit Britain in 1987, and also some helped by the hands of anti's, when do the progeney of these escapees become classified as wild then?

    Wildboar is the common name used to describe the animal, it is not to me a name that describes whether the animal is just feral, wild or domesticated, and the word Boar relates to the male of the species does it not?

    Just my observations, but a strict season to my mind is what is required, not total eradication. Which I must say seems to be the FC's answer to anything with four legs that touches a tree.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by sikamalc View Post
    So how does it work with Sika in Scotland ? They were introduced deliberatly or not as the case may be many years back and they are regarded as wild. As many of the pigs escaped after the hurricane hit Britain in 1987, and also some helped by the hands of anti's, when do the progeney of these escapees become classified as wild then?

    Wildboar is the common name used to describe the animal, it is not to me a name that describes whether the animal is just feral, wild or domesticated, and the word Boar relates to the male of the species does it not?

    Just my observations, but a strict season to my mind is what is required, not total eradication. Which I must say seems to be the FC's answer to anything with four legs that touches a tree.
    I dunno the answers.... There, you made me confess it...

    I suspect no laws against releasing captive animals into the wild existed at that time. I also guess few if any owners could been held responsible for adding such a menace to the existing deer populace (a very different situation to Boar escapes, where there was no existing wild population). I mean, back in the day, who knew what destructive blighters Sika would be in modern conifer stands? Things are different now though eh?. And were there such things as "wildlife" extremists going about cutting wires back then? I'm further guessing that the rich men who lost their park deer had very mixed feelings about the escapes/releases too.
    But... since Sika are my favourite quarry and favourite venison, by far, all I can say is thank goodness they're "wild" now.

    As for species nomenclature versus common usage of terms... whole other can of worms well beyond my ken.

    For what it's worth, I absolutely agree that "seasonal" shooting is an essential part of humane/sporting conduct. But...How the powers that be should go about sanctioning the sporting take of the anomaly that is called "wild boar" I really cannot see.

  4. #64
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    Just been mulling this over a bit.

    I'm mildly confident that the problem of the "out-of-season" culling of sows, as it were, is already covered in the current raft of wildlife protection law. The... to knowingly cause unnecessary suffering... clauses must surely cover the orphaning of dependent young and/or the harassment of nursing mothers.

    Take the FC to court over delibrate inhumane practice and you might give piglets and sows seasonal protection, by default... Yes/No?

    Good luck, putting together the case but I reckon it might be do-able and apologies if this notion has already been aired... I don't get as much time, these days, to read SD as I used to.

    Sorry, meant to add ....... And, if they are not "wild" similar clauses in the animal welfare legislation might be invoked.
    Last edited by Tamus; 07-09-2011 at 15:24. Reason: hit the GO button too soon

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamus View Post
    Boar have no legal status??? ...... That's really not so.

    I thought we had this out last year sometime. The problem is they do have a legal status.
    But as what above large mammal? There is nothing in legislation that gives them staus to my mind above that but I would like to know if there was. The reason I say this is that every other species that is given status either becomes an animal that can be shot or not and then becomes game or vermin etc.

    As for variation genetically, that's normal within any species and across sus scofa the variation is not that unlike in humans. While the FC might shoot sows with young and be unconcerned it's only fine and dandy when nobody knows and the public don't freak out when an article like 'cute baby piglets butchered by bloodthirsty killers' ends up topical news

    It's not like the media would hold back and this sort of thing would be quite a issue to smooth over for the FC, or would it? Who knows.
    Last edited by Paul at Fechan; 07-09-2011 at 16:35.

  6. #66

    FC's draft 'Feral Wild Boar Management Plan' for Forest of Dean 2011-2016

    Hi,

    The Forestry Commission's draft 'Feral Wild Boar Management Plan (Forest of Dean) Period: 2011 to 2016' can be viewed on the link below.

    "This management plan sets out the range of issues pertaining to feral wild boar on the
    public forest estate in the Dean Forest District. The objective of managing feral wild
    boar is to exercise a level of population control so as to reduce the risk of adverse
    contact with the general public living in or visiting the Forest of Dean, etc. etc."


    https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...wMmEx&hl=en_GB


    Cheers.

  7. #67
    Thanks Martin. Seems like a positive document.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by paul at barony View Post
    Thanks Martin. Seems like a positive document.
    Agreed!

    I have heard on the grapevine that FC have added another 100 to their cull target for this year.

    ATB

    Tom

  9. #69
    I stopped and took this picture out of the car window the other day!


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