Tikka M595 Twist rate and other questions

bills

Well-Known Member
Hi everyone, great forum which I am only just discovering!

I am getting rid of my Ruger M77 Mk2 .220 Swift rifle due to ridiculous ammo costs. Before anyone suggests, i have not the time nor money for reloading, as much as i would love to. Maybe in a year or two when life settles down!

Anyways, I am going for a .223 and was about to buy a Tikka T3 the other day when I found it had a 1 in 8 twist. I thought that was good as I can use heavier rounds but after talking to my friend a very experienced gunsmith and regular shooter, I have changed my mind. According to him yes the rounds can go heavier, but only because they are slower. I want something extremely accurate over long ranges.

Moving on, I found a Tikka M595 today, brand new and screwcut for £650. I have never held one and it felt like sex in a stock :D. Absolutely gorgeous balance and lovely cheekpiece (for me). The only slight drawback for me is the safety as I am used to Rugers all my life with the 3 point safety, but thats not enough to put off this rifle. So first question is, £650 for a new m595 .223 - sound like a good price?

More importantly (as i will probably buy it anyway!) is - MODERATOR.I want something slim not huge like the Reflex. I have researched this a little bit and found PES silencers seem to get good reviews. Would anyone agree with that? Does anyone have one for sale, or know where a good condition used mod can be bought? I am short of cash and need a scope yet! Thinking of a Bushnell Elite 4200 for optimum value for money.

Hopefully some of you experienced folk can help :)

Thanks y'all
 
Have a M595 in .222 I have had it for about 10 years cracking rifle & at that price i would get it before some one else dose.
I have just got a new stainless barrel fitted & i hope to have it for many years to come.

I am not the most carfull of people when it come to my rifles & it has been well used & still has never let me down.

I am looking to change out my .243 Remington & am looking for another M595 if i can find one.

John
 
Thanks for vote of support for this rifle John. Yes i have deliberately not mentioned who is selling it! The gun dealer in question is seriously struggling for business and really knows NOTHING about guns?! He acts surprised when I walk in, as if to say "what are you, a customer?" :D
I asked him what twist rate the barrel is (this gun is brand new) and he said "well i don't know, its a gun, it will kill a fox won't it, what more do you want?" I didn't answer "a free Zeiss scope to dress it with" cos he isn't the type to take a joke!!!!!!! I do intend to buy, but before I do i need to check twist rates and no idea how to check this unless dealer knows, and this one doesn't!
John, do you know if they are all the same twist rate and if so do you know what rate it is? Failing that, do you know how to check? Is it printed on barrel like the T3? Couldn't see it when I looked. Thanks again
 
The M595 .222 came with a 1 in 14 twist, i have change that to a 1 in 12 on the new barrel.

Not sure what the .223 came in, you could trylooking in the Tikka web sight, you might be able to find out there or some one on here might be able to help you out on that.

The lad that has the rifle he dose not have one .243 bay any chance?

John
 
bills.
Your very experienced gunsmith friend should have told you that you can fire lighter bullets in a rifle with a one-in-eight twist, you are not obliged to shoot the heavy droopy ones.
The problem arises when you have a slow twist and want to fire a heavy bullet and find that it does not stabilize correctly.

HWH.
 
Hi,
I find your friends comments interesting. I have shot .223 both fox and target for years and have found the following: a 70grn or 69grn bullet will do about 3000 FPS through a 1:8 twist barrel and will provide (I promise with factory not homeload) a 4" group at 600yds. The wind will also not effect this weight bullet as much as a lighter one.... more accurate. The lighter rounds will shoot a lot flatter but at less than 200yds there will not be much between them, but.....most importantly no worries with the heavier bullet if its windy!
I have a Tikka T3 lite with a 1:12 twist and use 55grn Blitzking Sierra's which provide a less than 1.5" group at 200yds, home loads granted but factory ammo will not be to far behind at that range. Have been a pest controller for 30yrs and don't remember shooting a fox more than that distance even in daylight.

The moderator yes go for a PES (MAE) I have a Small Muzzle Can 224 STS which is very good and for the price a lot better than T8, ASE etc..etc. Speak to Julian at JMS Arms he knows his stuff - his web site is http://www.jmsarms.com/

Hope this helps.
 
i have seen some like new in the box m595 rifles out there. they have been out some years now so seeing new ones tht havent been used are pretty rare. i would snap it up at that pice there superb rifles. i like the safety on them its simple and works fine.
 
Have a M595 in .222 I have had it for about 10 years cracking rifle & at that price i would get it before some one else dose.
I have just got a new stainless barrel fitted & i hope to have it for many years to come.

I am not the most carfull of people when it come to my rifles & it has been well used & still has never let me down.

I am looking to change out my .243 Remington & am looking for another M595 if i can find one.

John

hi john a friend of mine has the m590 in 243 for sale. hasnt seen alot of work. also comes with the deluxe walnut stock with rose wood cap. and a standard tikka m595 black plastic stock. screwcut £550
 
For the record the Tikka M595/M695 ceased production end of 2003 (sob). The M595 .223 was only ever manufactured in a 1:12 twist barrel.

The T3 appeared in the Tikka 2004 catalogue - at end 2003 - in the same 1:12 twist, but was also offered in 1:8 some years later when HB models were added to the T3 line.
The 1:8 twist rifles should be stamped as such on the barrel - I've seen a couple of these in Varmint and Super Varmint form.

I doubt very much after 7-8 years that this can be new, but Gunmark may tell you which RFD they supplied it to .... and when. You're entitled in law to check out the Seller's claims.
 
bills.
Your very experienced gunsmith friend should have told you that you can fire lighter bullets in a rifle with a one-in-eight twist, you are not obliged to shoot the heavy droopy ones.
The problem arises when you have a slow twist and want to fire a heavy bullet and find that it does not stabilize correctly.

HWH.

Thanks Stag but of course i know and he did mention that you CAN fire lighter bullets through a 1 in 8, but obviously not as fast as 4000FPS which is something I am hoping to achieve. He basically said it all depends on what you want to do with it, to which I replied "long range and high accuracy with a decent weight bullet for a .223 but not needing a particularly heavy round". He then explained why the longer twist (1 in 12) is more suitable to me in his opinion.
 
Hi,
I find your friends comments interesting. I have shot .223 both fox and target for years and have found the following: a 70grn or 69grn bullet will do about 3000 FPS through a 1:8 twist barrel and will provide (I promise with factory not homeload) a 4" group at 600yds. The wind will also not effect this weight bullet as much as a lighter one.... more accurate. The lighter rounds will shoot a lot flatter but at less than 200yds there will not be much between them, but.....most importantly no worries with the heavier bullet if its windy!
I have a Tikka T3 lite with a 1:12 twist and use 55grn Blitzking Sierra's which provide a less than 1.5" group at 200yds, home loads granted but factory ammo will not be to far behind at that range. Have been a pest controller for 30yrs and don't remember shooting a fox more than that distance even in daylight.

The moderator yes go for a PES (MAE) I have a Small Muzzle Can 224 STS which is very good and for the price a lot better than T8, ASE etc..etc. Speak to Julian at JMS Arms he knows his stuff - his web site is http://www.jmsarms.com/

Hope this helps.

Yes that really helps thanks very much. My friend only had a minute on phone so it wasn't a detailed conversation and now I see why it could have been misleading. I want something which will have the most lethality at 2-300 yards. For example, (i have only shot .220 Swift 55gr heaviest) can you tell me in your experience what difference it makes on a fox between using a 55 gr and a 70gr or maybe even 80 gr (which i am told a 1 in 8 twist .223 can shoot). i know its a combination of speed and weight but having had the king of speed (.220 Swift) and loved it, I suppose i may have been a bit presumptious in thinking that the faster loads are what i need in a .223, and that is something which my friend's brief comments may have helped to grow in my mind. I would rather have a more windproof bullet and obviously groups of 4 inches at 600 yards are quite amazing and more than i would need as i doubt i can afford a scope which can even pick a good target at that range!!!!!

AMMO COST - this is a major factor and may come into play here when talking about heavier loads. Do you know roughly what the cost of .223 average 55 gr rounds would be compared to 70-80 gr?

I am now quite confused and can see pros and cons of both, but whereas i thought the 1 in 12 was the lesser of two evils before, instead i am now thinking 1 in 8 may well be the best chioce all round, espcially if windy!
 
For the record the Tikka M595/M695 ceased production end of 2003 (sob). The M595 .223 was only ever manufactured in a 1:12 twist barrel.

The T3 appeared in the Tikka 2004 catalogue - at end 2003 - in the same 1:12 twist, but was also offered in 1:8 some years later when HB models were added to the T3 line.
The 1:8 twist rifles should be stamped as such on the barrel - I've seen a couple of these in Varmint and Super Varmint form.

I doubt very much after 7-8 years that this can be new, but Gunmark may tell you which RFD they supplied it to .... and when. You're entitled in law to check out the Seller's claims.

And the plot thickens AGAIN! Thank you very much for those comments. I had NO idea. The seller is an RFD with a shop and told me this is "brand new" and it certainly looked it (not a mark on it). I now feel slightly suspicious. It was definitely a M595, it had dark brown wood looking (felt plastic) stock and had no twist rate mentioned on barrel so guessing its a 1 in 12.

If anybody is still reading maybe someone could tell me what the minimum weight round could be fired from a 1 in 8? I gather a 40 gr will spin out and be inaccurate due to the speed?
 
You can check the twist in any barrel like so:
Remove bolt from rifle.

1. Place a mark at the muzzle (Felt pen/tippex dot).

2. Place a tight fitting patch on cleaning rod & (Patch end) draw a straight line with felt pen along the length of the rod approx 15".

3. Insert patch/rod carefully into muzzle & mark the line as in enters the barrel at the mark on the muzzle.

4. Drive the rod into the barrel & as the rod/line turns & arrives back at the mark on your muzzle, place another mark on the line on the rod.

5. Withdraw the rod & measure...you will have your twist rate.
Cheers, :old:
 
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thanks

thanks very much for that. unfortunately I can't do it the old fashioned way as I have no rod or patches and neither does the RFD! However, I will get the serial number and ask Tikka when I have it.
I did a few hours more forum reading and googling last night (til 4 am :-|) and its really odd. The first time I did that, everyone seemed to say the longer twist (12) is better all round, more accurate, faster rounds which are more explosive on impact with target. However last night all i could find was the opposite!! Everywhere I looked people were saying the 1 in 8 will handle 40 or 45 gr rounds perfectly?! BUT with the added benefit of handling heavier loads. I am not sure I fully trust this and its common sense that a 1 in 8 twist barrel is not ideally suited to chucking out 40 gr rounds but then many people say otherwise on what i was reading last night. I have a choice at present between a .223 Tikka T3 stainless varmint with synthetic stock (orrible!) BUT with a 1 in 8 twist, or this 'new' M595 I found with what I am sure will turn out to be a 1 in 12 twist.

Everything I have read says both are great guns but the M595 has the edge on quality and longevity, and I must admit handling both, the M595 felt a LOT smoother action and generally more carefully finished off. The questions I now have are more simple:

1. I would love to have the option of firing heavier loads, BUT i will never buy them if they cost a lot more, so any ideas on costs of the different .223 round weights would be REALLY helpful, anyone? Please?!

2. What speeds will a light round do in a 12 twist, versus a heavy load in an 8 twist?

3. Is it better to get the right rifle and move around in the field to make the rounds do the job, or choose based on rifling and twist, and then put up with a lower quality gun. :D

Hard one, plenty of head scratching here!


THANKS to all who have offered their valued opinions thus far
 
thanks very much for that. unfortunately I can't do it the old fashioned way as I have no rod or patches and neither does the RFD! However, I will get the serial number and ask Tikka when I have it.

:eek: Now I am highly supicious :-| a dealer with no way of cleaning a bore???? :confused: soa customer comes in and asked for a bore to cleaned to he can inspect the condition.. Even new rifles gather and collect dust on the rack so this should be a standard bit of equipment in ANY GUNSHOP surely?
 
I hear you, but the gun is genuine and so is the dealer, its just that its a hobby business and very small (losing money i should think) so what they have on the sparse shelves is all they have. out of stock on rods thats all, the gun is genuuine but has probably been on the shelf in there for years and yeasr

BTW - i investigated the M595 today. It is not correct that they stopped making them, they simply stopped importing to the UK. So the guns are still being made or certainly were very recently. This gun is brand new and unused, so even if its been on the shelf years (so long as warranty still applies and i will check that) it still is a bloody bargain at £650! Tis in my view anyway, the twist is the problem :D
 
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