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Thread: Wont almost any dog do?

  1. #1

    Cool Wont almost any dog do?

    Im new to the forum but i know plenty about dogs.

    As a deer dog, i need convincing that we all need to buy a bavarian , Hanovarian, or Teckle to track deer. Have these dogs become just the next piece of must have kit once weve all got swarovski Bins a Zeiss scope etc. any trainable dog should be able to undertake it. A doberman used to hold the record for following a long trail..........


    just for debate, im a big dog lover and of course a hippocrite, cos i would have a mountain hount in a heart beat

  2. #2
    Anybody wishing a dog that is capable of tracking deer does not have to purchase Bavarian, Hanovarian, teckle or any of the specialised tracking dogs. There are several breeds of dogs that are more than capable. I own a Bavarian for no other reason than I like the look and character of the dog. Sometime back I did working trials with GSDs. Good tracking dogs but we were pipped at the post a few times by other breeds such as Dobermanns, labs and on one occasion a standard poodle. All as capable as the GSD but I like GSDs.
    Knowing about dogs you will appreciate that over hundreds of years man has developed dogs to carry out tasks. Man has encouraged traits by selective breeding to concentrate the breed to a task. Watch a 8 week old Border Collie. It will naturally try to herd for no other reason than it is the prodigy of years of selective breeding.
    The specialised breeds you mention are the results of many years of development through breeding to produce dogs that are born with traits both physical and mental to carry out a specific task. Size, muscle development, courage and agility to tackle the intended wounded quarry and work hard terrain. Ears that assist in concentrating available scent whilst tracking. A developed nose to recognise a trail many hours old despite other scents. A stubborn determination that makes them want to continue where another breed may give up. A loyalty to his partner (handler) Etc IMO you do not train a BMH, you condition it's natural abilities to your purpose.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Gazza View Post
    Anybody wishing a dog that is capable of tracking deer does not have to purchase Bavarian, Hanovarian, teckle or any of the specialised tracking dogs. There are several breeds of dogs that are more than capable. I own a Bavarian for no other reason than I like the look and character of the dog. Sometime back I did working trials with GSDs. Good tracking dogs but we were pipped at the post a few times by other breeds such as Dobermanns, labs and on one occasion a standard poodle. All as capable as the GSD but I like GSDs.
    Knowing about dogs you will appreciate that over hundreds of years man has developed dogs to carry out tasks. Man has encouraged traits by selective breeding to concentrate the breed to a task. Watch a 8 week old Border Collie. It will naturally try to herd for no other reason than it is the prodigy of years of selective breeding.
    The specialised breeds you mention are the results of many years of development through breeding to produce dogs that are born with traits both physical and mental to carry out a specific task. Size, muscle development, courage and agility to tackle the intended wounded quarry and work hard terrain. Ears that assist in concentrating available scent whilst tracking. A developed nose to recognise a trail many hours old despite other scents. A stubborn determination that makes them want to continue where another breed may give up. A loyalty to his partner (handler) Etc IMO you do not train a BMH, you condition it's natural abilities to your purpose.
    Bravo, 100% agree. Extremely well explained

  4. #4
    I agree with all above, but would add that most of the time any dog is better than no dog. Having found deer that may otherwise have been lost in thick sitka plantations with such types as a Springer spaniel, german shepherd and a labradoodle. Once a dog understands the (find the deer) game that you are playing, they normally want to join in and are much better at it than we are. Without training, my springer found a fatally wounded Red stag and kept out of reach of it and was barking at it until I arrived, the German shepherd is a friends pet and has found many dead roe in thick cover and has held onto a wounded one. The doodle is another friends dog but is being trained for deer and has also been successful. The minimal training that I do is to allow a dog to find any shot deer and reward it with praise. The more they find, the more they understand and enjoy the game.

    I am not saying that they are better than selectively bred animals, I have seen many different working dogs doing their specialist roles brilliantly, only that in my experience non-deer dog breeds have proven to be a useful back up if nothing else is available.

    Stew

  5. #5
    I used to train with a grizzly old dog trainer who said something instill agree with.

    From a scent point of view all dog are capable of sniffing out men or deer, the difference between breeds or dogs is their mental application. They may have the best nose in the world but with no desire or drive it's pointless.

    Ian

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Gazza View Post
    Anybody wishing a dog that is capable of tracking deer does not have to purchase Bavarian, Hanovarian, teckle or any of the specialised tracking dogs. There are several breeds of dogs that are more than capable. I own a Bavarian for no other reason than I like the look and character of the dog. Sometime back I did working trials with GSDs. Good tracking dogs but we were pipped at the post a few times by other breeds such as Dobermanns, labs and on one occasion a standard poodle. All as capable as the GSD but I like GSDs.
    Knowing about dogs you will appreciate that over hundreds of years man has developed dogs to carry out tasks. Man has encouraged traits by selective breeding to concentrate the breed to a task. Watch a 8 week old Border Collie. It will naturally try to herd for no other reason than it is the prodigy of years of selective breeding.
    The specialised breeds you mention are the results of many years of development through breeding to produce dogs that are born with traits both physical and mental to carry out a specific task. Size, muscle development, courage and agility to tackle the intended wounded quarry and work hard terrain. Ears that assist in concentrating available scent whilst tracking. A developed nose to recognise a trail many hours old despite other scents. A stubborn determination that makes them want to continue where another breed may give up. A loyalty to his partner (handler) Etc IMO you do not train a BMH, you condition it's natural abilities to your purpose.
    Once again i find myself agreeing with what Gazza says, but would like to add a few more points.


    Before you throw yourself into the work which lies intrack training it is i think important to emphasize that youremember to put your own ambitions after the dog's abilities and desire. Trackwork is a unique partnership between dog and dog handler and therefore it mustbe based on training principles that should be fun for both. I have seen it before,and you must face it - NOT ALL DOGS CAN OR SHOULD BE sniffer dogs.
    Two years ago my partner and i bought two pups from the same litter, they both had the same amout of training, they are now two very different dogs with regard to there tracking ability's, they both will follow a 20 hr old trail, one cant wait to get the harness on, nose down like a hoover and is dead keen, the other will do it but is easily distracted and you can see that she does not have the desire the other dog has.
    Tony



  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by cookingfat View Post

    Two years ago my partner and i bought two pups from the same litter, they both had the same amout of training, they are now two very different dogs with regard to there tracking ability's, they both will follow a 20 hr old trail, one cant wait to get the harness on, nose down like a hoover and is dead keen, the other will do it but is easily distracted and you can see that she does not have the desire the other dog has.
    Tony

    I am of the belief that this is the case in all litters of pups. Although they are exactly the same breeding they will be different in colour/markings, possibly slightly different in size etc so why not different in their mental make up. Dogs are not massed produced robots where each will do/react/respond exactly as it's breed or even litter mates.
    This is where perhaps slight "problems" may arise. You get your well bred pup, buy the books (or should be the other way around) get started to training and like my BMH get to the end of your trail having placed treats there to encourage him (cause the book and mates have told you this is what turns them on) and despite your treats and praise he just is not all that enthusiastic. Next time out you try again but no improvement. You hear that your dogs brother is tearing up the ground to get to the end of a track and his deer leg treat. OMG you've bought a bummer. That's where I was till luckily my BMH when out for a stroll found a ball on a rope having been lost by another dog. He loves this toy and using it to have a play at the end of the track transformed his whole attitude. He had the ability just needed the desire.
    Versatility, patience and training each dog as an individual makes sense to me.
    A mate on here recently bought a lovely wee 14 month old spaniel bitch. A month ago "it is gunshy". Excellent breeding from a list of FtCh dogs but just needed a bit gentle handling, understanding and encouragement. She is now on the right road thanks to her owners patience and perseverance. Because you buy a breed specific for a task do not believe it will be exactly the same as the books/mates say.
    Last edited by Gazza; 05-10-2011 at 09:11.

  8. #8
    There is a plus side to this, the dog that is not so good on a trail will pickup for mrs cookingfat, the one which is better on a trail wont even look at a pheasant/partgidge dead or alive, it wont even tetrieve a ball or dummy.
    at the moment we have 8 dogs and they are all have very different temperaments, it's true what they say you never stop learning.

  9. #9
    Any body that uses a dog for tracking will know how sensitive there noses are So how come they can put their nose on another dogs pooo with out being sick (beats me)
    Graham
    Save Water Drink Single Malt

  10. #10
    Bavs don't smell other dogs pooo. It's below them to do so.

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