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Thread: how can i go about improving these groups??

  1. #1

    how can i go about improving these groups??

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ID:	9677Attachment 9676Attachment 9676Hi guys im very new to reloading and have only loaded 40-50 rounds so far, I am having a bit of a problem finding the best C.O.L for my sako 75 in .222. Basically all the literature i have to hand says the max col for .222 with the bullets im using is 2.130" however the ogive of the bullets im using will not touch the rifling until set at 2.210" (Hornady v-max 40 gn) i have also been trying to use nosler ballistic tips but due to the design and much further back ogive i cant get them anywhere near the rifling. The max i have tried it a col of 2.180 however being boat tailed bullets this does not leave much contact area between bullet and case i have posted some pics of the groups which are by no means bad i would just like them better? any ideas on this would be very appreciated as i dont really know what to try next.
    Last edited by james19306; 12-10-2011 at 19:10.

  2. #2
    James

    For some reason I can't see your pictures. However, the bullets need to be seated so that the neck of the case is holding them securely. Secondly, they need to feed from your magazine. I did a load recently with the bullets seated 148 thou off the lands. I would recommend you find a seating depth that works in your rifle, then tweak the powder. As it's a small case, measuring the powder becomes a little bit more critical. Once you have found a powder weight that gives good results, try moving in/out in 4 thou increments.

    Good luck. JCS

  3. #3
    are those 1" squares?
    IMO you could spend loads of time attempting to get better when you could probably just stop

    3 inside an inch will never be replicated in the field with wind and howling rain up your back or leaning on a gate post and will kill everything you point at (assuming you point in the right place)

    did you have better groups with factory ammo?

  4. #4
    Im not sure why pics wont enlarge wont do it on my computer either. They are basically two 3 shot groups with nosler 40gr which measure .597" adn .600" c2c. And another 3 shot with hornady v-max only 5 thou off the lands which measures .785" and yes they are inch squares on the target. The main problem is the gun used to shoot a ragged hole group with factory hornady v-max 40gr so i am trying to at least replicate it, i know its difficult without the pics so i will have another fiddle with them.

  5. #5
    Hi James,
    I have a Remington SPS IN .223 and measure to the ogive also, and my rifle does not like close to the lands, i am 30thou from the lands with 40gr V-MAX, 50gr Matchkings, and 55gr SP, with all my load's.

    I tried onto and into the lands and 5thou ect right back until i reached my sweet spot, and now it bug holes at 100yard's with all load's.
    Every rifle is different but dont think it has got to be right up close to the lands, just keep at it mate but watch out for pressure signs!

    Regard's Wullie.
    Your a long time dead, enjoy every day like it's your last!!!

  6. #6
    James measure the factory loads then set your loads to that size.I tried all the "get it as closeto the lands" stuff and going back to the factory size shot by far the best thru my Tikka.

  7. #7
    One of my problems is because of the shape of the nosler 30thou from the lands is as close as i can get it. As the v-max is the only one i can get close to the lands with i may as well start with it, What incriments would you advise me to move back by to try to find the right spot?

  8. #8
    I shoot 40gn Nosler BTs over 24.5 grains of Reloder 10x through my Howa 24" 1:12 .223 - the bullets are set almost to factory depth, leaving a stonking jumps to the lands, but I'm getting one hole groups now. At 100 yards it's possible to place one bullet on top of another when shot from the bench. The same applies to 40gn VMax - if there's any paper between the holes with that load I'd think the gun was broken! Gadget's Howa is the same with an identical load, so it's not as if my rifle is anything special.

    Go shorter rather than longer - you may be surprised at the results - I'd just back off in ten or twenty thou" jumps until the groups tighten up.

    Adam.

  9. #9
    In support of posters who say that you dont have to be bang up close to the lands - I give below a list of distances off the lands for my rifles

    20 Tac Custom barrel = 222 thou back - consistent >.3" (best 4 shot group .030")
    22.250 R93 137 thou back consistent >.3" (best 5 shot group .147")
    6.5 x 55 R93 220 thou back consistent >.4 (many 5 shot groups sub .3")

    However, I would stress one thing, whilst finding your powder weight/distance off the lands is important, it pales into insignificanse it you are not able to produce clones from your cases. Case prep is (to me anyway) the most important procedure in reloading

    Seriously - what is the point of wasting bullets/powder if your empty cases have wildly differing weights, case lengths differ, shoulder datums differ, bullet run out varies >3 thou, neck tension differences etc. Then of course there is the little matter of knowing how to clean the bore properly.......

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterH View Post
    In support of posters who say that you dont have to be bang up close to the lands - I give below a list of distances off the lands for my rifles

    20 Tac Custom barrel = 222 thou back - consistent >.3" (best 4 shot group .030")
    22.250 R93 137 thou back consistent >.3" (best 5 shot group .147")
    6.5 x 55 R93 220 thou back consistent >.4 (many 5 shot groups sub .3")

    However, I would stress one thing, whilst finding your powder weight/distance off the lands is important, it pales into insignificanse it you are not able to produce clones from your cases. Case prep is (to me anyway) the most important procedure in reloading

    Seriously - what is the point of wasting bullets/powder if your empty cases have wildly differing weights, case lengths differ, shoulder datums differ, bullet run out varies >3 thou, neck tension differences etc. Then of course there is the little matter of knowing how to clean the bore properly.......
    +1
    Your a long time dead, enjoy every day like it's your last!!!

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