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Thread: Allowing a land owner to shoot my rifle?

  1. #1

    Allowing a land owner to shoot my rifle?

    My certificate allows me to zero on land over which I have permission to shoot.

    So Mr landowner has given me permission and would like to have a few shots with my rifle while I'm zeroing/practising on his land.
    What is the current law in allowing him to do so under my direct supervision?
    Can anyone advise please?
    Cheers,
    Blaser K95 Luxus Kipplaufbüchse .25-06Rem. Zeiss 8x56, 110gn Nosler Accubond = Game Over!

  2. #2
    Same rules apply as if you were taking a non FAC holder client out
    "It's halfway down the hill, directly below that tree next to a rock that looks like a bell-end"

    Good deals with ~ deako ~ sakowsm ~ dryan ~ 2734neil ~ mo ~ riggers ~ mmbeatle ~ seanct ~ an du ru fox

  3. #3
    Not sure what the rules are Si?
    Blaser K95 Luxus Kipplaufbüchse .25-06Rem. Zeiss 8x56, 110gn Nosler Accubond = Game Over!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by deeangeo View Post
    Not sure what the rules are Si?
    Best get acquainted with the rules then...
    try estate rifle for a start..

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by deeangeo View Post
    Not sure what the rules are Si?
    6.16 Section 16(1) of the 1988 Act enables a
    person to borrow a rifle from the occupier
    of private premises and to use it on those
    premises in the presence of either the
    occupier or their servant without holding a
    firearm certificate in respect of that rifle. It
    should be noted that this gives slightly more
    flexibility in the use of a borrowed rifle than
    is permissible with the use of a shot gun
    as described in paragraph 6.14, in that the
    borrowed rifle can also be used in the
    presence of the servant of the occupier.
    However, the occupier and/or their servant
    must hold a firearm certificate in respect of
    the firearm being used, and the borrower,
    who must be accompanied by the certificate
    holder (whether it is the occupier or their
    servant), must comply with the conditions
    of the certificate. These may include a
    safekeeping requirement and, in some cases,
    territorial restrictions. Section 57(4) of the
    1968 Act defines “premises” as including any
    land. The effect of the provision is to allow
    a person visiting a private estate to borrow
    and use a rifle without a certificate. The
    exemption does not extend to persons under
    the age of 17 or to other types of firearm.
    There is no notification required on the
    loan of a firearm under these circumstances.
    A borrowed rifle should not be specifically
    identified as such on a “keeper’s” or
    “landowner’s” firearm certificate. The term
    “in the presence of” is not defined in law
    but is generally interpreted as being within
    sight and earshot.
    "It's halfway down the hill, directly below that tree next to a rock that looks like a bell-end"

    Good deals with ~ deako ~ sakowsm ~ dryan ~ 2734neil ~ mo ~ riggers ~ mmbeatle ~ seanct ~ an du ru fox

  6. #6
    I haven't needed to think about or use these rules/laws for years and would just like to check.
    The rules you kindly posted Si aren't specific to my question.

    I shoot my rifles with no problem on land where I have permission. I may do so as my 'conditions' permit this.

    I was asked by a landowner where I shoot & who has an FAC but only for .22LR, if he could have a go with my .25-06 rifle on his land. Unthinkingly I agreed to an arrangement for next weekend.

    But, I don't know what current law in allowing him to use my rifle is and want to check before allowing this to proceed.
    May I allow him to shoot my rifle, in my presence and under my supervision, on his land?
    Cheers.
    Blaser K95 Luxus Kipplaufbüchse .25-06Rem. Zeiss 8x56, 110gn Nosler Accubond = Game Over!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Si View Post
    6.16 Section 16(1) of the 1988 Act enables a
    person to borrow a rifle from the occupier
    of private premises and to use it on those
    premises in the presence of either the
    occupier or their servant without holding a
    firearm certificate in respect of that rifle. It
    should be noted that this gives slightly more
    flexibility in the use of a borrowed rifle than
    is permissible with the use of a shot gun
    as described in paragraph 6.14, in that the
    borrowed rifle can also be used in the
    presence of the servant of the occupier.
    However, the occupier and/or their servant
    must hold a firearm certificate in respect of
    the firearm being used, and the borrower,
    who must be accompanied by the certificate
    holder (whether it is the occupier or their
    servant), must comply with the conditions
    of the certificate. These may include a
    safekeeping requirement and, in some cases,
    territorial restrictions. Section 57(4) of the
    1968 Act defines “premises” as including any
    land. The effect of the provision is to allow
    a person visiting a private estate to borrow
    and use a rifle without a certificate. The
    exemption does not extend to persons under
    the age of 17 or to other types of firearm.
    There is no notification required on the
    loan of a firearm under these circumstances.
    A borrowed rifle should not be specifically
    identified as such on a “keeper’s” or
    “landowner’s” firearm certificate. The term
    “in the presence of” is not defined in law
    but is generally interpreted as being within
    sight and earshot.
    Doesn't quite, really cover our Original Poster's circumstances though, does it.

    He could lawfully let anyone use his rifle "in his presence"... not supervision, presence... an imprecise thing not entirely defined in law, I believe. Provided there were no circumstances militating against this.

    In the circumstances described, I (as a land-owner and shooter myself) would advise;
    Get your permission in writing first.
    Only let the owner use your rifle if you feel he is safe to do so and will take "supervision" from you... and keep him in your "presence"

    Do not let him use your rifle if you think he is unsafe or unfit to do so. Maybe ask him if there is anything in his past that might cause the Police to take exception to him "having a shot".

    Other than that just be safe and enjoy bringing a potential newbie into the sport but beware, he may not need anyone else to shoot his ground in future, if he gets hooked

    ps. The above also assumes that you are engaged in shooting "practise" not competitive taget shooting and.. if you should ever move on to live game, that the owner does actually hold the sporting rights over the land in question.
    Last edited by Tamus; 22-10-2011 at 12:26. Reason: it's militate against, not mitigate against

  8. #8
    No problem with the farmer here, he owns the land & has FAC for .22LR for 20+ years.
    He just wants to have a few goes on his land with my rifle occasionally...I have no problem with conditions on my FAC - for 'me', - just don't remember the law in allowing another user (him) in my presence.
    Yes, this is 'practise/zeroing'.
    Cheers
    Blaser K95 Luxus Kipplaufbüchse .25-06Rem. Zeiss 8x56, 110gn Nosler Accubond = Game Over!

  9. #9
    The law only generalises on this particular subject.... it would be impossible to cover every scenario individually.

    Forget the fact that the person wishing to use your rifle is the landowner, you are the FAC holder and you are for the purpose of the exercise "the servant" of the landowner. Under your supervision he can legally use your rifle under the conditions stated on your certificate.
    "It's halfway down the hill, directly below that tree next to a rock that looks like a bell-end"

    Good deals with ~ deako ~ sakowsm ~ dryan ~ 2734neil ~ mo ~ riggers ~ mmbeatle ~ seanct ~ an du ru fox

  10. #10
    I agree Si, the fact that he is the landowner is irrelevant. The "estate condition" is entirely relevant. There's no reason to get the permission in writing, after all, if the land owner is there with you, that indicates his agreement.

    Legally there is no problem. His holding an FAC helps to assure you that he's not a "prohibited person" for the purposes of the firearms acts.

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