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Thread: Smallest permission for Reds

  1. #1

    Smallest permission for Reds

    I have been asked to take a few Reds on a small area of land which is surrounded by other farmland. I have already made my opinions felt about fencing etc as I think since the land is surrounded by other deer-friendly spots a lot of the issues could be tackled by fencing off the more vulnerable areas - albeit expensive.
    Problem is it is very small - less than 20 acres. Doubtless there is a lot of deer damage, but this range overlaps the two other farms. I have little experience with Reds - I am confident about cull targets for all of my Roe shoots but as I am unlikely to have access to the surrounding land on this one getting an accurate head count or setting targets might be harder. Question for you folks with more experience on Reds than me - what is the smallest permission you would consider?

  2. #2
    How short is a piece of string? This is a deer control issue not management and will occur when you only have access to a parcel of land within their range. Is there a local(ish) DMG in place with whom you can consult? Maybe other local stalkers on an informal basis? The larger herding deer species can have a considerable range so they have probably settled on this area because they are not being disturbed there and feel safe, (plus habitat and other factors). If you start taking the odd one in a sensible manner then they will soon get the message and move on to other 'deer-friendly' spots. The landowner will be happy, you'll have a job well done and venison on the table.
    Last edited by Orion; 03-11-2011 at 12:45.

  3. #3
    Get shooting mate (safely though mind!)

    And think yourself lucky fella!

    I've shot Muntjac in people's gardens before to control damage etc.

    T

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    Get shooting mate (safely though mind!)

    And think yourself lucky fella!

    I've shot Muntjac in people's gardens before to control damage etc.

    T
    Quote Originally Posted by jcf1 View Post
    I have been asked to take a few Reds on a small area of land which is surrounded by other farmland. I have already made my opinions felt about fencing etc as I think since the land is surrounded by other deer-friendly spots a lot of the issues could be tackled by fencing off the more vulnerable areas - albeit expensive.
    Problem is it is very small - less than 20 acres. Doubtless there is a lot of deer damage, but this range overlaps the two other farms. I have little experience with Reds - I am confident about cull targets for all of my Roe shoots but as I am unlikely to have access to the surrounding land on this one getting an accurate head count or setting targets might be harder. Question for you folks with more experience on Reds than me - what is the smallest permission you would consider?
    You've heard the saying it's not the size it's what you do with it ,well the same applies to deer shooting ,have a look at the ground see what backstops and areas you can use to shoot safely if these are not available buy or make a suitable highseat to shoot from .

    The more barriers you show to the landowner the more chance hell ask someone else ,then you'll be back on here moaning someone has stolen your shooting ground ,where that won't be the case at all ,look at it wisely and enjoy the venison ,your the only one with the concerns ,why I don't know .

  5. #5
    I took the OPs post to query management issues regarding Reds in a small area, not the practicalities of shooting. Right or wrong?

  6. #6
    I used to fish with a stalker from the Findhorn area. He told me once that he was asked by a landowner to try and shoot a few of the Roe that were damaging the plantings in a smallish area of woodland (I think from memory it was about 50acres). The first year he shot it he accounted for over 40 deer. Each year he seemed to manage to attain this figure. Whatever was in the wood seemed to draw them from the surrounding area but there was a large roe population on the go to begin with. The last thing he would have done was ask for a fence to be put up!

    Cull targets or head counts are totally irrelevant in the circumstances you have described. Deer are causing damage and you have been asked to try and prevent that. Regardless of deer friendly areas around you, if they are on this land they should be controlled providing it is done legally and safely. Further, if there is a draw for them to come onto this 20acres, they will forever be present unless that attraction is removed. 3 things dictate the presence of deer, them seeking shelter, food or copulating!!! Bit like me actually...

    As has been said, if you don't someone else will get the chance...
    Last edited by jamross65; 03-11-2011 at 14:02.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    I took the OPs post to query management issues regarding Reds in a small area, not the practicalities of shooting. Right or wrong?
    Exactly - I'm not worried about unsafe shots here - the area is surrounded by backstop and bugger all! I know I can shoot safely in all but a few spots. What I want is to give the landowner the best advice possible. I know fencing will help them achieve what they are after, but I'm also pretty sure some control is necessary too. I just didn't want to be taking out deer for the sake of their 15 acres if it means I overdo things unknowingly due to a lack of awareness of the true size of the population.

    I'm not short of permissions so the venison or sport is not an issue for me, but giving a friend the right advice for their land and not eliminating deer from an area where they are enjoyed is. I think I'll take on board what people are saying and start slowly. Take a steady number and see what the impact is. I'm going to try and pop over to one of the neighbouring farms tomorrow and get at least permission to survey his land if not stalk there too. That would be what my gut tells me is the bulk of the area they cover.

    If someone else comes in I do accept they may well do the job I am not prepared to do - and that is annihilate every deer in sight, but I would be very surprised if the landowner in question would allow anyone else on the land to be honest.
    I know I'm being over fussy, but on all my shoots I like to get a real feel for what impact I'm having.
    Last edited by jcf1; 03-11-2011 at 21:36.

  8. #8
    Your OP as I read it refers to a transient population of deer. I assume this as you refer to concerns regarding the deer being impacted on the surrounding land if you shoot too many on your bit.

    As I said earlier, there is something in your friends wood they want. Your friend wants the damage to stop. What are you going to do if after your assessment you think the deer can suffer a loss of a dozen then next month there are 2 dozen in your friends wood? Are you honestly going to tell him, 'look, I have assessed the herd and I cannot shoot any more as the deer friendly folk around you will get upset, so you will have to suffer the damage...'?

    Maybe your first suggestion about a fence would be better after all...

  9. #9
    As Jamross said on 20 acres you have a transitory population - you will not get the chance to shot any great numbers in one go anyway on a acreage that size as they will be off after the second shot.

    As has been said - if there is something in the wood they want, they will be back - if not they will say clear for a week or too. I would take them when they are there and monitor the damage to see if things improve after you thin out a few.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ewich View Post
    As has been said - if there is something in the wood they want, they will be back - if not they will say clear for a week or too.
    And if that something is an undisturbed place to lie up in then shooting a few will soon get the message across that it isn't and they'll be wary of hanging around if there are better alternatives elsewhere - job done.

    Personally I'd try and identify the lead hind and if possible not shoot her. She'll suss the situation out and tend to keep the group away from habitual danger.
    Last edited by Orion; 05-11-2011 at 13:37.

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