Blackpowder or Muzzleloaders

UTGrad

Well-Known Member
Wanted to see if anyone hunted with a muzzleloader or blackpowder here. I have a CVA Accura .50 that shoots a 300 grain bullet 1900 fps with 110 grains of Blackhorn 209 powder. This thing is actually more accurate than my rifles and can kill anything that walks in North America.

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100 yard Group 5 shots

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Successful Harvest

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In Scotland a bullet must have a muzzle velocity of 2450fps or above to be deer legal. 50gn bullet for roe deer or bigger and achieving 1000ftlbs of energy and 100gn bullet or above and achieving 1750ftlbs of energy for large deer (about the size of a white tail or bigger). So you muzzle loader would be illegal.

In England the law is slightly different and in theory you could us a muzzle loader I guess, but I don’t know anybody that does.

Nice rifle,it look most un-muzzle loader like.:confused:


ATB

Tahr
 
Yes...most muzzloeloaders are very high tech now. This thing is effective out to 250 yards, except I wouldnt take a shot out past 200.
 
I recall there was the discussion on one forum of the suitability of M/L rifles for Elk. If I remember correctly it was after soem article was published about a custom Elk M/L rifle some one built. What with all the interest in it I ask why one never hears of folks using a .451 Enflield as it's long 480 grain bullet surely would be ideal. The answer I got was that it was not legal as the bullet was too long :eek:.

Of course the .451 is a traditional rifle some of the originals were used in the Civil war, some it appears even scoped, so it's not unknown. They are capable of shooting with accuracy to 1,000 yards and were sued for such at Wimbledon and later after the move to Bisley. It was a .451 the the Queen fired from a frame to open the ranges at Bisley.

I can see huge changes in the primative M/L seasons and rules in the US just because the idea has been lost with just such modern In-lines.
 
Oh yes an American fellow did come over a few years ago and Hunt Sussex/Hampshire with a guide using a Muzzle loading rifle. Sussex Police tried to say it was not legal so the guide provided the ballistic and load data to which the Police said he and the makers were lieing about. So he contacted the manufactures who got onto to Sussex Police and were basically threatening to sue for libel. Sussex issued the visitors permit an the chap took some nice deer with it on his visit. I happened to visit the guides house to collect the Muntjac Buck mount and he had one of the Americans mounts there and showed me. a Much better Buck than mine and he had a nice fallow as well.
 
Hi UTgrad good to see you on the site. I am not suggesting for a moment that I know why the laws are structured as they are but in large measure I do agree with them.
It seems obvious that when you are going to take the life of an animal for whatever reason it needs to be done in as humane a way as possible. This means using the best, most efficient means available. To do anything other than this indicates that you are doing it to test yourself, rather than to do a job. I am sure that there are those that would argue that a muzzle loader or a bow or a handgun will do the job as well or maybe even better but in the cold light of day if you are going to legislate to control the use of firearms usage, then what other choice do you have but to ensure that weapons that have a sufficient margin for error are used.
 
In theory there's nothing wrong with a muzzle loader power-wise, but you're a bit buggered if you need to take a quick follow up shot.
 
Hmmm so if we follow this logically then only semi automatic rifles should be used to ensure the quick follow up shot? and all single shots or slow to operate bolts will be banned. I assume that there will be a compulsory test with certificate of course :rolleyes: needed to make sure one can actually operate any such firearms in a specified time frame?


Now we KNOW what the answer from the powers that be will be on the semi auto one don't we!!!!

As for this:-

This means using the best, most efficient means available

and just who's idea of best do we choose?
 
Now we KNOW what the answer from the powers that be will be on the semi auto one don't we!!!!

I guess if Mr Ryan had not done his thing we might still be using them


and just who's idea of best do we choose?

Mine obviously.

Whatever the subject might be Brit there are always going to be people who disagree. At the end of the day a decision has to be made and it seems sensible (to me at least) that we use of a rifle in a calibre which is widely available, that has ballistics to spare, and with the prospect of a reasonably quick follow up shot is an ok place to end up at. Our situation is by no means perfect, there are stupid anomalies but you have been on the site long enough to know that the conversations are rarley (if ever) about whether the calibres we are able to use legaly are capable of doing the job. That means to me that the law cannot be far from right.
 
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For my first stalking trip, I was awaiting a variation and so used my friend’s rifles. One was a Churchill 308 with open sights, the other an original Mortimer double taking .500 winged bullets, my friend had a special mould made but in truth it shot better with Minié bullets. Again open sights, the express sights were ok in good light, as light faded windage deteriorated.
The muzzle loader was fun, we removed the caps and left it under the bed in the hotel between stalks. My lucky stalk and first deer was with the 308, I never did get to use the Mortimer on deer, my friend did and it worked nicely. If anyone know of a Paul Lee in the stalking works, aged mid 50s a pm would be appreciated, as we lost touch when I moved to Canada for a year.
 
In theory there's nothing wrong with a muzzle loader power-wise, but you're a bit buggered if you need to take a quick follow up shot.

I can reload my Hawken in about 45 seconds. My .58 cal single shot with minne-balls can be loaded faster. When I want really fast follow up I use my .58 double rifle. ~Muir
 
Lucky you don't have to deal with it then, isn't it? ;)
In truth, a solid hit from a 45+ cal rifle will require no follow-up. A bad shot is a bad shot no matter what the weapon, and faster chambering of the second round usually doesn't mean the next shot will be more precise.~Muir
 
Most shots in Tennessee are taken under 100 yards. I have never needed to take a second shot on a deer with my inline muzzleloader and it absolutely knocks deer off their feet. Velocity and KE are sexy numbers and obviously a .270 is ballistically superior to a muzzleloader on paper, but the momentum of a .50 bullet at 300 grains moving at a good clip is devastating to deer, elk, moose and even bison with a good shot placement. Pro hunter Jim Shockey has killed just about every game animal on the planet with an inline muzzleloader. There is just something awesome about that huge bang and a cloud of smoke.

Muir my next move is to go to a more traditional style muzzleloader. I want to get a whitetail within 20-40 yards and bust him with open sights.
 
I have killed rabbits, deer (mule and whitetail) and buffalo with a muzzleloader. You can stretch it past 40 yards with a decent rifle. I used my 53 cal Hawken at 110 yards last fall. The buff was a large, dry cow at 80 yards with a .58 cal. I shoot 200 yard target with my Parker-Hale Whitworth rifle....

Read some of Sam Fadala's stuff on black powder and why "the numbers" often don't translate well to muzzleloaders~Muir
 
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Only one of them? I think I've got them all.

I have about a dozen muzzleloading rifles from .30 to .58 calibers. My latest is a Kodiak double rifle in .58. It is a very accurate rifle and considering the "reasonable" price tag, seems well regulated. I have modified a civil-war minnie' ball mold by reducing the diameter of the base plug so that the bullet is left with a thicker "skirt" and can take a 90 grain charge of powder with out deforming ("blowing the skirt") as it leaves the muzzle. This is the same bullet I use in my ancient Navy Arms "Buffalo Hunter" single shot with great success. I like the minnie' design as it loads fast, like a smooth bore, but shoots like a rifle. I will be hunting in SD this December and my brother has had an invasion of 40 odd buffalo from a neighboring pasture owned by the Tribe, onto his land. They won't herd them up so they are fair game. I think the .58 double will come in handy then.

My latest "almost" muzzleloader passion is a 1859 Sharps business rifle firing combustible paper cartridges filled with black powder. Not legal in most states because it loads fixed ammo from the breech. I have a carbine and the business rifle and both are mind bendingly accurate.~Muir
 
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