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Thread: LDNS report

  1. #1

    LDNS report

    The following is a summery of the Lowland Deer Network Scotland. The views are my own and represent no group or body.
    Unfortunately Gazza had to call off at the last minute, CBS and I attended the meeting. Initially the meeting seemed to be taking a familiar line with Stewart Stevenson MSP Minister for environment and climate change discussing Wane. Usual input re farmers needing to accept responsibility for deer. The responsibility for deer control is given to the land owner who can pass on the responsibility to a third party. Not much fresh, political answers to awkward questions. I posed the one re deer being over culled. Back to the usual gambit SNH are there as advisory to a voluntary code of practice.
    Second up was Andrew Thin, again round a familiar circle. We all know some areas have higher deer populations than another. Some farmers and landowners are soft on deer management. Some farmers do not appreciate that deer management is part of their remit. This may change and may give DMGs an opportunity. Well presented by a career politician. Both had to leave before the real questions began.
    Third up was Robbie Kernahan, Wildlife operations manager, snh. More numbers crunching and veiled promises. Like the promises before we are shown a rosy future but when it will happen?
    The NLDMG presentation, Presentation well presented by lacked dynamics. A history which carried little interest. Little or nothing to promote DMGs as a credible force. No sales pitch that any pro manager (and that was 50% of the gathering) would take on board as a possible solution to a deer problem.
    Afternoon was led by FCE chairman, Good presentation from Ian Ferguson re the new form the leases will take. Credible and feasible, but what it will do to the process in the long run.
    NFUS, trying to sell deer management to its members. Some make money, some ignore the problem. Came up with only farmers talk to farmers, win over one and the rest will follow. Difficulty is finding the one.
    Best practice. Mike Cotton told us of its outstanding success. I suggested they come up with a sister publication for farmers, he has taken it on board. If it comes up WLDMG deserves the credit.
    There followed a question time with little of substance. Caused a stir on asking about night lamping of deer and checks before licence issued. SNH, stringent checks on all applications, FCE closed out the topic immediately not wanting that can of worms opened.
    Richard Cooke closed with a short sales pitch for LDNS, 25 per head, Looking to become the spokespersons for Lowland deer management.
    To sum up LDNS has little to offer as a whole as it stands. Taken the level of professionalism and the clout they already carry to get a SoS, SNH chairman, FCE chairman to support the sales pitch and to get the proliferation of land agents, estate owners, and professionals there to buy in DMGs would be overwhelmed. When Richard Cooke suggested to NFUS rep that he should tell the farmers the deer could actually be a cash crop the intake of breath was audible. Widows Son rounded on that one. It puts nothing on the table that would let me suggest 25 pounds per head from every DMG member would be a sound investment. It was a credible power play from a powerful lobby group within the ADMG.
    My feelings are the local DMGs would be marginalised and left to rot if this line was followed. I suggested a similar system contained within the LDMGs three years ago only to be told a central grouping was too much too soon. Now a well funded body backed by the major stalking estates are muscling us out. Significant SNH deer lads were present including Ronnie Rose but not in an active capacity. Their hope is 1000 members by Christmas at 25 a head. That is a serious fighting fund.

  2. #2
    Interesting read jimbo, thanks for that.

    John
    A clever man knows his strengths, a wise man knows his weaknesses

  3. #3
    You are welcome. It is an overview. I am sure others will be along to fill in the blanks.As widow's son said. Too many kept quiet. There were a few lone voices in a sea of tweed. Jim

  4. #4
    Jim. That was a good post and not to far away from what most will have thought. But i must say i thought the presentation by the NLDMG was really pour and in away they were the ones that should have been able to sell it to the Deerstalking public.After all they were the ones that would have been paying for this DATA collecting exercise. After speaking to our Chairman and Secratary we feel this is not one we would like to be part of at the moment.A missed opportunity sadly and to many people there trying to brown nose.

    PS nice to meet you Jim.

    Allan
    Last edited by rudy65; 15-11-2011 at 10:19.

  5. #5
    The lads worked hard on their presentation. A lot of presentations depend on the remit given. It was either a poor presentation if an open remit or they did the best with the content required. Remember the others are all professional presenters. it is a case that the lads were asked to keep out the other groups. A joint presentation from central scotland DMG's could have been been more benificial but I think that was against the agenda. Jim

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo123p View Post
    A joint presentation from central scotland DMG's could have been been more benificial but I think that was against the agenda. Jim
    Probably one of the best opportunities for Lowland DMGs to promote themselves but IMO the input and any message that the Lowland DMGs could put over was carefully managed. What a chance for the Lowland DMGs to present a joint presentation but......................Only one DMG were invited to the initial stages of the set up of the Conference (were told not to discuss the matter with anybody) and then invited to make a presentation at the Conference without any reference/input from any other Lowland DMG. This Conference was partly funded by and the brain child of the ADMG who are supposed to represent ALL DMGs. Why was this not the case??

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo123p View Post
    Usual input re farmers needing to accept responsibility for deer.


    Farmers are not of one mind on this. Some don't have many deer on their land and many don't suffer any noticable damage. I'll go out on a limb and suggest this means they don't deny "responsibility" so much as deny having a significant deer "issue" of any description which would require them to act. After all it is being suggested that they should "do something" and many don't see that they have anything to do... and heaven knows deer management comes well down a long, long list of pressing requirements which they must attend to. Of course, many farmers also "blame" forestry for creating the problem in the first place, though this may be slowly changing with Rural Stewardship and all the new planting on farms.



    Came up with only farmers talk to farmers, win over one and the rest will follow. Difficulty is finding the one.
    Talk to me. I'm listening and I'd like to see what you really want to have happen.

    When Richard Cooke suggested to NFUS rep that he should tell the farmers the deer could actually be a cash crop the intake of breath was audible.


    I bet ther was. Deer managers being expected to pay out? ... Wish I'd been able to take time out to attend now, to see how that one went down. But, if you are going to ask for action you've two tools as ever... the carrot and the stick.


  8. #8
    Agree with you here to a point Tamus. Farmers tend to think in terms of what effects them. Spoke to a farmer recently re fox control. "I don't have lambs or chickens/ducks/geese so I don't need fox control" But what about his next door neighbour being plagued by fox coming from his property. IMO that is where a collaborative picture comes in. I believe this to be part of the remit of a local DMG to build up a picture of the deer population/habitat/deer problems in their area and with the cooperation of the landowners put in place a collaborative and sustainable deer management plan. Farmers/landowners need to be more open to the larger picture and have trust in those willing to carry out the management tasks.

  9. #9
    The lowland deer network has a further agenda and at 25.00 a head and input from forestry commission and snh the farmer issue sorry guys but it was a money making exercise for who I don't quite know yet, on every single presentation the mention. of cost came to the fore .

    The NFU representative well his own bio was pretty good ,the money bore the brunt of his presentation ,another revenue as jimbo mentioned oh really ,the point being the panel didn't like the fact that we the stalker are doing the farmer and the forestry companies should be paying us for our service ,mmmmmm

    After all we the tax payer have already paid for the national forestry estate and again paying for the privlage to stalk and pay tax on the ground for a second time .

    The farmer issue was the highlight ,deer belong to no one so we pay the farmer to shoot the deer which may be transit deer only on his ground and gone ,now we all know wild deer belong to no one until dead what are we paying for to walk the ground in hope of finding a deer , I could always burn the money I make .

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by widows son View Post
    The lowland deer network has a further agenda and at 25.00 a head and input from forestry commission and snh the farmer issue sorry guys but it was a money making exercise for who I don't quite know yet, on every single presentation the mention. of cost came to the fore .

    The NFU representative well his own bio was pretty good ,the money bore the brunt of his presentation ,another revenue as jimbo mentioned oh really ,the point being the panel didn't like the fact that we the stalker are doing the farmer and the forestry companies should be paying us for our service ,mmmmmm

    After all we the tax payer have already paid for the national forestry estate and again paying for the privlage to stalk and pay tax on the ground for a second time .

    The farmer issue was the highlight ,deer belong to no one so we pay the farmer to shoot the deer which may be transit deer only on his ground and gone ,now we all know wild deer belong to no one until dead what are we paying for to walk the ground in hope of finding a deer , I could always burn the money I make .
    It's messy isn't it?

    I mean, putting on my farmer hat for a moment... Why should I let you wander about my ground? ... Doubly so if you're not even paying...

    You've been god knows where and brought god knows what with you, from ticks to fluke and more and not only that but you want to "play" (please forgive me getting into the role here) in my place of work, as well as potentially placing my livlihood and my investment in jeopardy... I'm not going to allow that readily and why should I? ... Hell, I've enough trouble calling in the vet, because he almost never comes alone either.

    The thing is, leaving the above widespread "farmer" mentality aside, what is starting to happening here is the creation of a structure of governance.

    I always say, it's easier to lead a bull where you want... once you've got the ring in his nose.

    So, what will become of this "structure of governance"? Will it go the way of a vermin control industry or the way of a highly regulated sport... controlled by a few... for profit... i.e. will we eventually wind up having to pay homage to our very own Bernie Ecclestone?
    Last edited by Tamus; 15-11-2011 at 14:52. Reason: added i t

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