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Thread: Re-sizing

  1. #1

    Re-sizing

    I currently load .243 Win for myself using Varget powder 35.5 grains/ 87g Hornady vMax and Fed large rifle match primers.

    I am fairly new to re-loading.

    I recently had a problem with cartridges fitting the rifle, with some tight and some would not allow the bolt to close. I put it down to the die not being in the press correctly (followed instructions to letter, but no resistance in final travel of press)

    I therefore screwed die in (Redding Comp full size die, with bush/Redding comp seating die) and this cured problem felt a wee bit of resistance, almost a click in final few mm of press travel.

    My questions, I have ogive gauge and headspace gauge.

    Ogive on above bullets was fine so I believe it was the sizing of cases that were a problem (not fire formed in my breach/rifle). Can I measure the cases to ensure the sizing die is set up correctly?

    Also, can I remove the de-capping pin and bush etc from the sizing die and "bump back" the shoulders on the loaded cartridges that do not fit the breach of my rifle without "pulling" the rounds? If so, will thos affect accuracy?

    I understand I remove the 6mm ogive gauge and replace with the cartridge head space gauge, what measurement (in inches or mm) should I have and does it check for correct re-sizing?

    Sorry for the convoluted post but I am keen to learn more and ensure I am safe at the same time.

    Regards,

    Sid

  2. #2
    The trouble with using a full length die set up correctly is that it puts the whole case back to SAAMI spec, when in reality all that is required is a tool to put the shoulder back that, once set up so that using it permits the round to chamber comfortably then this tool can be locked off and kept for future use - that tool is a Redding shoulder bump die which has the extra benefit of being able to set your shoulders back even with a loaded round.

    The idea of using the full length die to just bump the shoulder is of course do-able but unless you can mark the die somehow for bumping the shoulder, it is a bit of a messer having to set it up each time to full length and bump shoulders - if you have gone to the expense of Reddding Comp dies ( like me also) the Redding shoulder die (about £35) is a very worthwhile extra bit of hardware + the appropriate bushing for the comparator.

    Peter

  3. #3
    you never mention anything about trimming your cases,havent you got a case trimmer,yes you need one,how close did you seat heads to rifling

  4. #4
    unless you are using more than one rifle, are using once fired rounds from someone elses with a larger chamber or are using the same case lots of times I still dont understand why FL resizing is required.
    surely fireformed cases from your rifle with proper neck sizing and trimming would negate all the issues

  5. #5
    I would not attempt to resize live rounds even with the decapping pin removed. So you need to remove the bullets and then measure the cases and possible resize.

    I use a Forster bullet puller and .243 collet (£20ish from Tim Hannam).
    It screws into the press like a die.
    Much better than a kinetic hammer (crap).

    As previous posters have said, two possible errors.
    1. Cases need resizing
    2. Cases need measuring and perhaps trimming after resiizing.
    If you use brass which is not fireformed in your rifle you need to resize, either F/L or using a body die.

    I use a Redding body die to knock the shoulders back and resize the necks with a Lee collet die, but the Redding gear is very good.

    I don't have a headspace gauge so I establish headspace empirically by adding a small circle of masking tape to the case end (to allow for 2-3 thou of headspace).
    It is a lot easier with a headspace gauge.
    Then resize the case a little and test the resized case in the chamber by locking the bolt down with the case in the chamber.
    If there is no resistance on closing the bolt then that setting on the die will be ok.
    If there is resistance then I advance the die and resize and check again and again until there is no resistance on bolt lock down.
    BTW I remove the firing pin from the bolt when doing this.

    Some links may help, the ammosmith videos are good.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handloading

    http://ammosmith.com/

    http://www.riflesunlimited.co.uk/sho...type=reloading

    http://www.reloadersnest.com/rifle.asp

    http://www.6mmbr.com/techarticles.html

  6. #6
    A caliber specific precision mic is what you need it will measure the headspace to allow you to establish how far the shoulder needs bumping ( thats belt and braces) then use this to set up a bumping die, or you can simply stick with the method you are using.
    www.anglocustomrifle.co.uk
    Anglo deer management and training
    Yet another 7mm 08 user ..................... if Carlsberg made calibers.........................

  7. #7
    If you want to consistently push the shoulder back by the minimum amount required, the easiest way is to use the Redding competition shellholder set: you get a set of 5 with increments of 2 thou depth, just find the one that works with your seating die and chamber. Idiot proof, just screw the die down until it touches the shell holder.

  8. #8
    That is great information, thank you all that replied.

    I tried very hard to keep my post brief and may have confused some.

    I only suffered this problem with cases that I had been given by (some) friends. I know a lot of pro stalkers, some of whom use a substantial amount of factory .243. As they are supplied ammunition from work, they generally bin the brass (or used to).

    I have a wee syndicate of myself and 2 friends (invested in re loading gear between us). I load for all three of us as the rounds I load work very well in each rifle. I use a different make of brass for each of us to keep it simple (myself Norma, friend "A" RWS and friend "B" Federal) We also have plenty of MTM cases (different colour for each person) and record how many firings each case has had.

    The problem I had was with my (new) Redding die set. Case length's were trimmed correctly (2.035). I think the instructions were unclear in that by following them, the shoulders of the case were not being pushed back.

    Having read all your replies am I right in thinking full length re-sizing is a must on all brass I receive from stalking pal's, then load up as usual and when it comes back (this will be second firing, factory round and 1x reload) I will be able to neck size and trim only.

    I do have a RCBS trim pro case trimmer (manual).

    In reply to Jack, I did have problems with RCBS kinetic hammer (lasted about 40 rounds before alloy shell holder fell apat and cases slipped through) I was under the impression though that the puller and collet destroys the actual bullet?

    It looks like a Redding shoulder die is a good idea. I do have a necking bush in my re-sizing die (.267), if I use a shoulder die only on fire formed cases, will I be able to put the necking bush in the shoulder die to constrict the neck?

    Thank you again for taking the time to reply (especially John who PM then rang me)

    Regards,

    Sid

  9. #9

    Is this wrong ?

    I find that some cartridges become tight to chamber. I just find a used cartridge that feels nice, and easy to close the bolt, put it in the press, and with the arm in the down position, hand wind the die down until it's snug against the shoulder, and lock it down.

    Double check a couple, and tweak as required.


    Am I missing something, because it's really quick, and easy to do ?


    Mark.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Sid 181 View Post
    I currently load .243 Win for myself using Varget powder 35.5 grains/ 87g Hornady vMax and Fed large rifle match primers.

    I am fairly new to re-loading.

    I recently had a problem with cartridges fitting the rifle, with some tight and some would not allow the bolt to close. I put it down to the die not being in the press correctly (followed instructions to letter, but no resistance in final travel of press)

    I therefore screwed die in (Redding Comp full size die, with bush/Redding comp seating die) and this cured problem felt a wee bit of resistance, almost a click in final few mm of press travel.

    My questions, I have ogive gauge and headspace gauge.

    Ogive on above bullets was fine so I believe it was the sizing of cases that were a problem (not fire formed in my breach/rifle). Can I measure the cases to ensure the sizing die is set up correctly?

    Also, can I remove the de-capping pin and bush etc from the sizing die and "bump back" the shoulders on the loaded cartridges that do not fit the breach of my rifle without "pulling" the rounds? If so, will thos affect accuracy?

    I understand I remove the 6mm ogive gauge and replace with the cartridge head space gauge, what measurement (in inches or mm) should I have and does it check for correct re-sizing?

    Sorry for the convoluted post but I am keen to learn more and ensure I am safe at the same time.

    Regards,

    Sid
    Firstly I think your over complicating things now half the stuff sold for reloading is not required for the normal stalker/ recreational shooter. A std set of RCBS, Lee Pacemaker, Redding, Lyman, CH etc full length sizing dies will do all you need. Add a trimmer, the simply Lee std and cutter works and if only doing one or tow standard cartridges then is really all one needs, Cheap primer pocket cleaner, once again there are several to choose from , a press be it bench mounted or hand type once again the choice is wide but bear in mind the volume your likely to want and choose accordingly. Some one who wishes to range shoot several thousand cartridges a year is probably better off with a bench mounted press.

    Now I would completely forget about the headspace gauge and the ogive gauge neither are actually needed in fact I still do not have either and have successfully loaded many thousands of rounds.

    I also feel that your choices in equipment have led to your problems, your trying to run before you can walk, go back to basics and learn those. Then if you so desire spend the money and play with the other stuff but don't be surprised if you don't see any better results. Most is smoke and mirrors and unless one is loading for a specialised rifle with tight neck chamber, min chamber specs such as a bench rest rifle then frankly your just wasting time and money. It's a bit like fishing gear most is designed to catch anglers and relieve them of their money and has got bugger all to do with actually catching fish .

    Now for a normal stalking rifle seat you bullet a minimum of one calibre deep and start from their. I normally seat so the base of a flat based bullet is level with the neck/shoulder juncture. One can then, if the grouping looks like it may be improved, seat further out in say 0.020" or 0.010" increases. When developing a load full length sizing is often useful and to be frank very few in reality try to get more than half a dozen reloads from a case so F/L sizing makes no difference on that score. I tend to F/L size a lot of cartridges as in several chamberings I have more than one rifle using the same cartridge so it makes it easier.

    Case cleaning can be done several ways and many without spending a small fortune. Same goes for case lubricating choose a way which suits you. I now use an old Lyman pad. Neck sizing can lead to the problems you experiencing in a normal factory chamber. The neck clearance is large enough that the case will lay in the bottom of the chamber before firing and so when fire formed is no longer concentric. Partial or neck sizing will often not address this and on trying the chamber the round unless by lucky chance the cartridge will not be oriented the same as when it was fired the first time and as a result you can experience resistance in chambering and I feel this may be part of your problem. Using the Comp dies like you are which are made to tighter tolerances than a standard production chamber your experiencing a mis match of specs.

    Go back to simple and you will find less problems .

    Oh and as I started writing this before your last post due to a visitor arriving I'll add that for cartridges fired in a different rifle you will have to F/L size to make sure it will chamber in any rifle as unless very carefully done with the same reamer no two chambers are alike.

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