6 month old BMH chasing deer!

bartzkingx

Well-Known Member
Morning All,

I have a six month old BMH that is doing great in all respects, apart from... Chasing unwounded deer whilst out walking!

9 times out of 10 I can get her either back with me or make her sit before she realises there are deer in close proximity, however when she does chase she is gone for several minutes. She never catches them and always comes back.

I am very wary that her chasing unwounded deer will heavily dilute her ability to track due to following a fresh scent will be seen as more exciting. Does anyone have any suggestions that will help me stop her following fresh scents on a track? I haven't ever bollocked her for chasing deer, reasons for this are: 1. Because eventually I want her to chase and despatch wounded deer if that is what is required, 2. When she comes back, the bollocking will appear to her to be a bollocking for coming back, not for chasing deer which is counter-productive.Any thoughts would be greatly received.
 
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I have not trained dogs for deer but have many years experience with other working dogs (sheepdogs and gun dogs) Before any "work specific training" I have to be confident that I can stop and recall the dog and it is not until they are steady here will i start any serious training. You will need to get the recall sorted well away from deer because as you say you will eventually want her to follow, so keep working on the recall away from any situations where she will want to ignore it.
 
If your dog is never going to hunt un-shot deer you must give it a bollocking for chasing them like you would any other animal you did not want it to hunt. Make sure he she already knows its OK to hunt scents and bloods. Most dogs will chaise any animal, it is up to us to decide what ones and when. Keep it away from live deer until you have done many hours training on dead ones and then work on the recall i would suggest a good dog whistle.
 
6 months, off lead in a deer situation. Like Rudy says steady the dog. if you have a constant sit recall in place you are ahead of the game. Is the dog sheep steady? Rabbit, Hare,
In other words take your time and instill the basics.
Here says the man with the unsteadiest cocker in Scotland. Perfect manners, hunting and recall (begrudgingly) until she scents a Pheasant then she knows best,
Jim
 
Morning All,

I have a six month old BMH that is doing great in all respects, apart from... Chasing unwounded deer whilst out walking!

9 times out of 10 I can get her either back with me or make her sit before she realises there are deer in close proximity, however when she does chase she is gone for several minutes. She never catches them and always comes back.

I am very wary that her chasing unwounded deer will heavily dilute her ability to track due to following a fresh scent will be seen as more exciting. Does anyone have any suggestions that will help me stop her following fresh scents on a track? I haven't ever bollocked her for chasing deer, reasons for this are: 1. Because eventually I want her to chase and despatch wounded deer if that is what is required, 2. When she comes back, the bollocking will appear to her to be a bollocking for coming back, not for chasing deer which is counter-productive.Any thoughts would be greatly received.

You are having an HS thus certainly no whistles nor heavy bollocking.

What I would suggest to take her out to a place downwind from where you know/hope deer are. Put her collar on, not the tracking collar and tie a 50/100 yards thin line on that with a ball on the end.

If she goes after a deer you put your foot on the line and because of friction and the ball on the end she will come to a halt. Reel in the line whilst grumbling deeply and make her sit with the line on for 20 minutes or so. Tie the line to a stump and disappear.

Yoy can also start by making her sit and stay as above once she has winded the deer.

Have you contacted Mr Buchholz?
 
You are absolutely right about why you should not bollock the dog for what it is doing simply because you eventually will want her to follow, chase and bring deer to bay(wounded) and secondly she would associate the bollocking with coming back. What you need to work on is recall, walking to heel and eventually steadinesss in the presence of deer. The first two need to be well instilled and initially away from the distraction of deer scent. You will then have control over when you allow her to track and when not.
You cannot stop the dog from being able to scent fresh deer scent or for that matter any other scent she may come across but what you need to get her to understand is that I do not want you to follow that track, I want you to follow this one. This can only be done with praise, encouragement and reward whilst the dog is completing the right track and a little guidance and correction if he goes off on the wrong one. As your dog becomes more experienced in the tracks you want her to follow she will recognise but ignore the other scents. What you have to recognise in training is when the dog has gone totally wrong and when she has gone off the right track just to investigate another scent and make up her mind as to the right one. In training you must know exactly where your track goes so that if the dog does stray off the track you know she is doing so. My way is to stand still, say nothing (best case is that she works it out herself) allow her to investigate (chances are she will cast round back onto the right track and continue) but if she commits to the wrong track stop her and encourage her back to the "right" one.
 
Here says the man with the unsteadiest cocker in Scotland. Perfect manners, hunting and recall (begrudgingly) until she scents a Pheasant then she knows best,
Jim

I'll be your witness to that statement any day Jim. Lovely wee dog, hunts like it's got a rocket up it's jacksy, totally fearless and the best selective hearing on the planet. :D
 
But you have to admit she can flush pheasants better than any dog you have ever met,--------------------------------- 3 woods away.
 
Thank you all for your replies so far,

I thought my recall was good until she switches off when chasing the deer. When not chasing she comes to me with no hesitation 99% of the time. How could I make this stronger when she's chasing? This leads me on to your point Baron, I like the idea of using a long leash, what is the idea about leaving her for twenty minutes?

Gazza, Thanks for your points too, all taken on board.

Baron, I did get in touch with him and he's currently checking my dogs papers just to ensure she's from working and not show lines. Thanks for your help with that; I sent him a letter from me and also a 'reference' type letter from the head of my Jagdgruppe.

Any more suggestions for steadying or strengthening her recall will be kindly welcomed
 
IMO Basic rule of dog training - never give a command that you cannot enforce. If your dog is in full flight after a deer there is no point in keeping calling him, all you are enforcing in his mind is that he can disobey. Baron's long leash suggestion can be a good one as this enables you to enforce the recall but most dogs will quickly realise when they have a leash attached and when they don't. I would certainly give the long leash a try but if this fails you may have to resort to stalking with the dog on a jager leash. With some dogs the excitment of the chase is just too much to resist .
 
Baron may i ask why a recall whistle would be a no no were a HS is concerned. It works for most other breeds while stalking and can be very effective at stopping a dog in full flight.??
 
Back to basics,heel,sit and stay,this can happen when your dog is working on deer too young,not saying you've put her on too young but this can happen when dog is keen to please,if she's found deer for you in past
Keep her at heel when out for walk and watch her,then you should be in position to stop her before she gets a full head of steam up
Once she is rock solid on basics try and get access to a deer park and walk through with your dog,as Rudy and Gazza say the dog has to know when you want it to track and when you don't,she is basically doing what she's supposed to do but without order,therefore you have to get back in control now before this gets too ingrained
I think she maybe is taking the **** if she knows all the basics
Does she run from heel when she sees deer?
 
Fentooooon:d

It's definitely a FENTON moment!

Bayer walks great to heel on a lead and at the mo I'm working on her heel off lead. When walking on the lead she will jerk towards any deer seen but does not bark (one saving grace I guess!).

It's as though she completely shuts down to anything else when chasing deer. I have not used her at all on any real trails as I know she is far too young.
 
It's definitely a FENTON moment!

Bayer walks great to heel on a lead and at the mo I'm working on her heel off lead. When walking on the lead she will jerk towards any deer seen but does not bark (one saving grace I guess!).

It's as though she completely shuts down to anything else when chasing deer. I have not used her at all on any real trails as I know she is far too young.


Don't let her off the lead until you have full control of her,ie she will sit when on/off the lead,ingrain the sit on her brain
Without proper control/steadiness you'll be wasting your time working her to deer unless you want a dog who will stay in the motor when your stalking
You must get the obedience correct before she is tempted by deer again
As Baron says take her to somewhere with plenty of deer(after you have worked on her obedience)have her at heel on lead and tell her to sit whenever a she spots a deer
As Gazza says ensure you can enforce the command,you are the boss not the dog
If you tell it to sit it should sit not just think about it or career off into the blue wide yonder,whether she comes back soon or not
Obedience is the cornerstone of having a good dog,scrimp on it and the dog will have no respect for you at all and will think it can do as it pleases
Good luck,you should be ok if you nip in bud now,don't let her do this at all more if you can help it
On lead,she's too young to be doing as she wants,she will start ignoring you in time if you don't do something now IMO
 
IMO Basic rule of dog training - never give a command that you cannot enforce. If your dog is in full flight after a deer there is no point in keeping calling him, all you are enforcing in his mind is that he can disobey.

I agree with this basic rule of not giving a command you cannot enforce, but when I was training my LM and she would chase something I would blow the stop whistle, then when she did not stop I would run after her screaming what I would do if she did not stop! I am a fit person but obviously cannot outrun a HPR but she would eventually stop as I got closer to her, and I would then drag her back to where she should have stopped and then enforce the stop whistle first blown. She is now a cracking dog. When I am working her on birds and a deer gets up it was tempting at first but having already enforced the no chase command she got it straight away. I do not agree with doing nothing, I have seen other HPR's on the grouse moors have the whole 'do nothing' training as they belt after hare after hare after hare only for the owner to watch and trust me the dogs get more and more keen to catch those mountain hares. Tell me how that will ever stop if you never try?

The key is spotting it in the first place. My problem was rabbits and hares, she would put her nose to the ground and as soon as that happened I would look out for the ground game, get ready to pounce on her and enforce a sit before she had even had a chance to comprehend chasing it!

Just my thoughts but to each their own.
 
6 month old chasing deer

Its a puppy!!!!
Note the exclamation marks.you are the problem as you have put a BMH in a position when the entire genetic make up of the dog is saying go and get it.you have bought a hunting machine and now have given yourself a load of grief.
Back to basics.
Stop,sit,wait.
Do not expose the pup to unwounded deer off leash.
tracking training plus lots of praise in findind a wounded " Bait/Deer"
Contact the BMH ask them (Steve or Pete) for advise.
You have obviously got a good dog but no idea how to harness the potential (not meant as a dig)
The dog does what it says on the tin.
PM me if you want help
 
As Kit says it's a pup
Best way of ruining a deer dog pup,let it chase deer!!!!!
Obedience 1st,advanced stuff later
Afraid to say boring first then the more interesting stuff
A BMH isn't a hunting machine(in the sense a spaniel is)either it's a tracking dog,if you don't rein this PUP in you'll be in trouble later,stop it chasing by keeping it on a leash and brush up on the basics,don't,don't let it run free anywhere,pup or not!
 
I havnt got any experience with BMH, however I have trained labs and HPRs for deer

If this isnt corrected it will get worse and WILL become a problem. She will spoil chances before you get a shot. She will run in after the first shot and you wont beable to follow up with a second shot at other deer. IT IS BACK TO BASICS. I train my dogs so the default is for them to sit when I stop walking. You should get them to sit and stay without distractions. Then gradually add the distractions ie kids running past, if you can add other animmals as distractions (rabbits or better still, deer). At six months of age I am still re-enforcing the basics. Try setting up a situation where you have the dog under control so you are able to correct the unwanted behavior. When I want the dogs to follow a blood trail I take them to the strike, get them to sit until they are calm, and only then do I set them on. If they have chased un-shot deer I dont praise them nor do I bollock them. Also remember not to give them the chance to find every deer you shoot at, just like if you are training a retriever you only give them about 1 in 5 of the retrieves. I often sit them down say twenty yards from the deer that I know I wont need them to find. I will gralloch them and they must not move until I am ready for the to move. I use a thunderer whistle to make my dogs drop at distance into the sit position, this usually stops dogs better than a recall
 
You have obviously got a good dog but no idea how to harness the potential

As much as it may appear I have no idea, I am trying to remedy something before it escalates so that I do not taunt the great potential of my dog. I felt the best way to help sort this would be to pool ideas from people on here.

Rem284, I have been recommended by my German colleagues to not use my dog on any real tracks until at least 18 months of age as she will not be ready until then. What are your thoughts and how young have you used yours?

I shall reinforce the sit/recall/down/stay in new and challenging, but controlled, situations. I know she's capable, I just need to strengthen her drive to obey rather than take off.

As I mentioned previously, she sits/ recalls etc perfect every time, just unfortunately not when deer are around. She has only chased on a handful of occasions so as someone said, I wanted advice so I could nip it in the bud ASAP.
 
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