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Thread: FAC Advice

  1. #1

    FAC Advice

    Michelle has decided to go for her FAC. I have agreed to mentor her as she comes over to mine every weekend and has been on many a stalk and bunny shoot with me. Initially she cant afford her own rifle so will be using mine, though in the future she may buy her own deer rifle. Now the bit I need help with.I live in Dorset and have a Dorset FAC, called my firearms dept and they were great and understood what I wanted to happen... Michelle lives in London so I called the Met and the guy I spoke to didnt sound in the least interested in helping me when I explained as below and how Michelles application should be worded.This is what I would like to happen: Michelle applies for her own FAC and uses my land to be able to obtain a deer claibre rifle. Michelle shoots with my rifle under my supervision. She will also be applying for .223 and .17hmr as I also have those calibres. She also wishes to have a cabinet at her house in the future so if she buys a gun she can keep it there or if I visit her I can keep my rifle there overnight. She would also need the MODs on her FAC and bullets of course.Now, is there anything wrong with the above? The only thing I can see is access issues but if I hold the keys then there surely wouldnt be a problem...not only that she would almost certainly only ever be shooting when I am present. Has anyone else been in this position?many thankspete

  2. #2
    SD Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Herefordshire, Hampshire or Essex

    Forgive me, but are you not overcomplicating this? I'm assuming from what you've said that you would like said lady to have your rifles on her FAC -but if course she does not need to have this to shoot your rifles under the 'estate rifle' clause. The only benefit to her having your rifles on her FAC are if she were to use them unsupervised - which she won't as she will almost certainly (as you have already alluded) have a mentoring condition. Just get her FAC with the slots to be filled as and when she is ready and able (although they may not wish to see two C/F rifles mentored first up - but let's not get into the rights and wrongs of that!). As to the cabinet, I think that's a red herring. Let her get one for sure (to go with the allowances on her FAC), but don't get hooked up on access. It's her cabinet, you're staying and you are following good practice to keep rifles as safe as possible while you're away from your normal arrangements.

    E t R
    Nooooooooooooobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!! Our main weapon is.........

  3. #3
    Hi EricThanks for the reply I understand what your saying about over complicating the matter and didnt realise she could apply for an FAC and then decide later. I asked about the estate rifle rule for mentoring someone else a while back, that in itself was whole can of worms as the police said that the letter of the law said I must be a servant of the land owner blah blah..ect. Now my neighbour is a solicitor and said , what exactly is a servant these days? , would I have to be paid by the land owner etc. All I know is the police werent happy with that arrangement hence my thread.

  4. #4
    chickenman this should be a straight forward grant for a fac and i think you will be a mentor for 1 year and then she should get open fac, what i would say is get the forms fill them in and be there when the flo comes to see here so all can be explained and make sure you have a letter saying she can shoot on the said land.


  5. #5
    Wiltshire Police are extremely helpful and my local FLO recently came out to talk wo my students about obtaining firearms certificates. As I understand it the servant clause is not an issue here because you own the rifles, they are on your ticket and you will be present. The servant clause allows those employed on the estate by whoever has the sporting rights to use the landowner/rights holder's rifles and is there to differentiate from the rules regarding lending shotguns. Of course, clarify this with BASC, but that was my understanding.

    As for mentoring, I assume the condition would be pending a DSC1 and would only be attached to the deer calibre. As such it doesn't matter whether she is shooting your rifle or her own as long as you are with her, until she gets her DSC1 and the condition is removed. ETR is right, just get her to sort out the FAC as per normal, choosing calibres that are appropriate to her and using permission on your land as "good reason". She can then purchase rifles as and when she is able, using yours in the meantime.

  6. #6
    There will be no problem for her having a deer calibre as she can show good reason. As regards to level 1 I know she wants to do that but if that was used as a condition for her to obtain an FAC I would not be happy with that and point out to the FEO that there is nothing in the guide lines to say she has to have one. I will do as you and get her to apply for an an FAC in the way suggested as if she has the permission of the land owner she will be able to use my rifle. When I think about it the problem arose before as I was going to mentor a friend on my land but he didnt have written permission which made the estate rifle ruling a bit muddy. But I know the farmer will give her permissions so she should be able to use my rifle. I will of course get it all confirmed in writing from the police to cover myself.

    Many thanks


  7. #7
    I would be very surprised if the MET put a mentoring clause on her ticket. I have never heard of them doing that.

    Who did you speak to there?

  8. #8
    When I first put in for my FAC it was just for a 'borrowed' gun. Same process, get a slot and needed a signed note from the person holding the gun on their cert. When cert came had gun listed on it.

    Very simple and straightforward.

    Section 161 of the Highways Act 1980 (England & Wales) makes it an offence to discharge a firearm within 50 ft of the centre of a highway with vehicular rights without lawful authority or excuse, if as a result a user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered.

  9. #9
    Met didnt say she needed a mentor, never really got into a discussion about that as the guy I spoke to ( dont know who it was but it was Kingston area) seemed to be uninterested in helping me. I have to say it seems alot easier for her to get an FAC than I thought, from what I understood id she muct buy a rifle in a certain time. If I say she can use mine in my presence I suppose it shoulf be sorted pretty quickly.

    Many thanks for your input guys.

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