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Thread: Differences in T&T of Deerdogs and BMH/HS; Number 2; Verweisen

  1. #1

    Differences in T&T of Deerdogs and BMH/HS; Number 2; Verweisen

    The tread "Differences in T&T etc" developped in a different way than I thought so rather than hang this at the end I thought I would start a new thread.

    Verweisen, a German tracking term, I do not know if an english translation exists (Google does not produce anything) is about the most useful bit one should teach a scent dog.

    I have never seen it from any other breed of dog but I stand corrected.

    What is it?

    Quite simply. The dog is taught that as soon as it smells a bit of bone, blood, guts, hair or whatever bit that comes from the deer you track it should stop so that the handler can look at it.

    You can imagine the advantage. You have been following a long trail and you feel increasingly uncertain if the dog is still on the right one. All the normal signs look good but nevertheless.

    And then, hey presto, the dogs stops, looks around for you and there it is. A drop of blood or whatever. You feel invigorated, your confidence transmits itself to the dog and the trail is bought to a succesful end.

    How do you teach it? Simple.

    Along a track in the wood you lay white stones or something easy to see, about 50 yards apart. On each of them you put some hair, or guts or whatever. You lay them out having your tracking shoes on, a bit of skin at the end. All bits of course from the same animal.

    You return home and after a while you work the track with your young hound, on the lead as always!

    Take care he cannot wind them. Then you start as per usual. When he arrives at the first bit. You stop him and make a great spiel of inspecting it, Of to the next, same again.

    He soon learns that he is expected to show and stop when he finds something and lo you have a most useful aid to your tracking.

    Now who uses this aid in the UK and does anybody know of non-scenthounds who have been trained in this? The Danes perhaps?

  2. #2
    My labs most definitely don't,I haven't heard of any uk dogs doing this
    The Danes translate verweiser(a dog whom does verweisen)as something slightly different
    A dog trained to show the handler it has found deer after it returns by a certain behaviour such as jumping up and down
    The Danes perhaps terminology is slightly different:
    Verharren:the ability of the dog to communicate to the handler that it is on the trail when working on the lead
    Now I'd say verweisen was verharren
    However one remains constant,totverbeller:a dog trained to bark as a signal that it has found the deer,my youngest lab sometimes does this which is very handy

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  3. #3
    Baron, as said before I used to do working trilas with GSDs. In Tracking Dog trials items were left on the track by the trail layer to be found and indicated by the dog. In terms of a Police Dog tracking a suspect of a crime any item dropped by the suspect could be evidence to the case or identification of the person being tracked and the evidentual value could be lost or comtaminated if a dog were to pick the item up and cover it in dog saliva. Dogs are trained to lie down on finding an article. Training is much as you describe. Knowing where the items are on the track the second the dog begins to indicate he is commanded to lie. Repetition of this excercise will result in the dog lying without command on finding an article.

  4. #4
    I think you can also say ' to point " this is your dog to teach how to point when he found a drop off blood , liver , lung , hart , therefor as i told before it is very inportant to observe your dog at his reactions during the trail he is doing . Is sometimes goes so fast you hardly notice . When your dog is " pointing " someting it is up to you to hold him and say " let me see " is there someting , hold the lean , and investigate the place in front off the dog .

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolverine View Post
    Verharren:the ability of the dog to communicate to the handler that it is on the trail when working on the lead
    Now I'd say verweisen was verharren

    However one remains constant,totverbeller:a dog trained to bark as a signal that it has found the deer,my youngest lab sometimes does this which is very handy
    Interesting. Do you know how the dog signals to its owner that it is on the trail and how is it taught?

    Yes, having a totverbeller is very handy. You are lucky you got a natural one; it is not easy to teach.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudi View Post
    I think you can also say ' to point " this is your dog to teach how to point when he found a drop off blood , liver , lung , hart , therefor as i told before it is very inportant to observe your dog at his reactions during the trail he is doing . Is sometimes goes so fast you hardly notice . When your dog is " pointing " someting it is up to you to hold him and say " let me see " is there someting , hold the lean , and investigate the place in front off the dog .
    Very good point, I forgot to mention that the teaching goes combined with a special command.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Gazza View Post
    the items are on the track the second the dog begins to indicate he is commanded to lie. Repetition of this excercise will result in the dog lying without command on finding an article.
    Now that would be very handy if your dog was off the lead. But would it work on one drop of blood?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by barongcw View Post
    Interesting. Do you know how the dog signals to its owner that it is on the trail and how is it taught?

    Yes, having a totverbeller is very handy. You are lucky you got a natural one; it is not easy to teach.
    I would presume Baron(I know presumption is the root of all evil)that they teach the dog the same way as a verweisen would be taught as yourself and Rudi have described,presume again that they signal the same way as this also,ie look back at you,stand and shout it's there
    I have encouraged the young dog to bark to his food on command and transferred it to dead deer,you are right very hard to teach a lab to do but some will,he's been bred by myself off my 2 other dogs both trained to deer,both of these dogs bay wounded deer along the line without training,just in them I suppose
    I also encourage the dog to play and rag at the carcasses neck,barking as much as he can
    BMH/HS I think are naturally more vociferous/vocal

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  9. #9
    I had a terrier that would go to the deer even in thickest of cover and let out a bark he would then return spinning and jumping for me to follow barking excitedly. These terrier were bred for deer work and even now line continues.
    Last edited by 6pointer; 06-01-2012 at 21:22.

  10. #10
    I tried to train for this
    But in reality it was not what I wanted and TBH was not sure what I was doing
    You will see my young dog at the time stopping at each blood spot to indicate she had found something then she would look at me to let me know
    This was a real time track on a freshly shot fallow,



    Old footage when she was young 15 months old if I recall

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