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Thread: First application

  1. #1

    First application

    A mate of mine is applying for his first FAC and is having some hassle from the usually compliant Humberside. He's an armourer at Hereford army base, arming the special forces and squaddies day in day out. He handles and fires a whole manner of service weapons, but as usual this counts for nothing when applying for a civilian FAC. He has permission to shoot our farm but the land won't ever get 'deemed suitable by chief officer of police' and they're wanting to push this condition onto his certificate. Is there any way around this?

    Also, he has access to land down in Hereford but wants to keep his rifles up here, in Yorkshire. Is there any reason why he can't use that land for his application and not use the land up here?

    Any input is gladly received.

    Tom
    I'm telling Captain - from the Wee'est of men.

  2. #2
    He has permission to shoot our farm but the land won't ever get 'deemed suitable by chief officer of police' and they're wanting to push this condition onto his certificate
    What condition are they trying to put on his certificate?

  3. #3
    'Such and such rifle can be used over land which is deemed suitable by chief officer of police' something along those lines. Our land has a fair few public footpaths and the odd caravan site here and there so it's a none starter for him if they want to survey the land.
    I'm telling Captain - from the Wee'est of men.

  4. #4
    'Such and such rifle can be used over land which is deemed suitable by chief officer of police'
    I'm afraid that is a standard condition on a first (Closed Novice) Fac.

  5. #5
    Move to North Yorkshire and get an open one

    Wills

  6. #6
    Where the land is is immaterial. As long as it's cleared by the chief officer then it can be used as "good reason".

    I'd say he could definitely push to have the restrictive land condition left off. If he is up for a bit of a fight, he can refuse to accept the condition. If they then refuse to issue, he has a pretty strong case to appeal, and a letter to the chief officer for Humberside stands a good chance of succeeding. He should remind them that the CC's conditions should only be applied in "exceptional circumstances" and not "as standard", and that they have to be "wednesbury reasonable", lawful; unambiguous; Proportionate; Non-contradictory; demonstrably beneficial to the public safety; properly notified and evidenced.

    I'd say that they would fall down on a couple of those points at least.

    A letter to the chief constable might well find a receptive audience!

  7. #7
    Crown, the law says that there can be no such thing as a "standard condition", each case must be assessed on it's own merits.

    Somebody who is deemed safe to handle all the weapons a military armourer will come across must surely be considered capable of deciding if land is safe to use a given weapon on surely?

  8. #8
    This is out of the Home Office Guidance

    Where the firearm is authorised for morethan one purpose, care must be taken toomit the word ‘only’ in the conditions.An asterisk conditions specific firearms on acertificate but may be replaced by the phrase,“The firearms and ammunition…..” where asingle condition applies to all firearms (andammunition) on the certificate.
    1. Quarry Shooting (for vermin, foxor deer)
    • The *calibre RIFLE/COMBINATION/SMOOTH-BORE GUN/SOUNDMODERATOR and ammunition shall beused for shooting vermin and groundgame/fox/deer (delete as appropriate) andfor zeroing on ranges, or land
    deemedsuitable by the chief officer of police for the areawhere the land is situated and over which theholder has lawful authority to shoot.(The words in italics may be omitted oncethe certificate holder has demonstratedcompetence. There is no set time for thisand each case should be considered on its
    individual merits.)

    That didn't paste very well

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by tjwaines View Post
    Also, he has access to land down in Hereford but wants to keep his rifles up here, in Yorkshire. Is there any reason why he can't use that land for his application and not use the land up here?
    A lot of deerstalkers will quote land elsewhere... say in Scotland... as the 'named land' anyway so there's nothing unusual in that. FLD's have reciprocal clearing/inspection arrangements with other forces as routine. If the foreign patch is large and remote the local force will clear it possibly by 'phone.

    He'll still have to serve his time, but oddly enough the availability of this other land would be a faster route to an open ticket. Then he can shoot on your farm without the need for prior CC approval. If his initial application is based on your land this may get 'blacked' on inspection. Maybe it's best not to name it at all, unless this is unavoidable.
    If I'm going to be accused of it then it's just as well I did it.

  10. #10
    The words in italics may be omitted oncethe certificate holder has demonstratedcompetence.
    And handling firearms day in day out, and being trusted to handle and fire all sorts of firearm, doesn't classify as demonstrating confidence?

    I still maintain that they cannot, legally, apply a "standard" condition such as that. It needs to be assessed for each application.

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