Witnessed Stalks

admin

Administrator
Following on from the thread about the chap being ripped off by the stalker, in respect of stalks he had bought for his level 2, there was quite a bit of interest in witnessing stalks by our members. Now this has been mentioned before, and always initially whips up considerable interest.

More and more people now feel the need to have their level 2, either for their own satisfaction or needing it to meet requirements of their leases etc, which means the demand for witnesses is growing. The numbers of stories relating to witnesses who are both good and bad seem to litter stalking sites all over the Internet. The trouble is that one person’s view or unfair is another person’s version of perfectly acceptable. The difficulties seem without fail to involve money. Some witnesses will do it for nothing or a “bottle of whisky”, some just want their expenses covered which may or may not include accommodation; others will be looking for a fee. Some of which are eminently fair and others may stray into the realms of greedy.

If there is sufficient uptake by members who are witnesses, both accredited and credible, for us to establish some sort of register then we shall. However it is up to the person who is trying to get a stalk witnessed to liaise with the witness and sort out any and all expenses involved prior to the stalk. It is not the responsibility of the site to negotiate these details; it is yours and yours alone.

With regard to the register that will take a little thinking about, but it will probably be along the lines of the geographical location of witnesses, plus any distance they are willing to travel. Whether or not the witness name would be included to be contacted by pm or their details held by admin, would be a matter for the witnesses to decide.

This is just a proposal; it is a matter to be decided by the relevant members.

John
 
Witness Register

Thank you for your kind thoughts John. It would be fantastic if some of our members would come forward and help form a register. I need my level 2 but do not know anyone local who could help with the witnessing and any other further training they recommend that may be required.
This is really good news.
 
The witnesses should not mind their details being held as they are distributed around the countryside anyway when someone applies for the DSC 2 portfolio.

J
 
This is something JAYB and myself have spoken about on the phone and are of the same opinion.

Last year I and another Level 2 holder helped a fellow stalker off this site whilst stalking my ground and witnessed two of his three animals between us.

I have no problem with doing the same for other good folk, either in Scotland or on one of my other leases, or their ground. As long as its within a reasonable distance and they cover the fuel costs I am here to try and help as much as possible.
 
I think it is probably best if the details of the witnesses are held by admin as this will deter the "less than satisfied" shall we call them abusing phone numbers etc. We have to be realistic, I like the vast majority of people would envisage a smooth running system, however bad things happen and if we can control this as much as possible then it can only be for the good.

Another reason for us doing it this way is that we can monitor the success or not of the system and it would enable the production of figures to support anything we say about it in the future.

So anybody interested in being involved just pm me your details. Indicate which County or area of the Country you would be willing to cover, what charges expenses you would be looking for. As a guide I have had indicated to me that if the witness was to travel to the "clients" ground then it would be fuel expenses and maybe a feed. If you were supplying the stalking opportunity then it would be £60 per stalk with no hidden extras.

John
 
JAYB,

I dont think you should be putting in prices for stalking on someone elses ground at this moment. That is only one persons idea on prices. They will vary and that is up to the AW on his ground to decide the price, this will start a problem before the project gets off the ground.

You state that some persons may be disgruntled by the failng of their abilities. It should really be highlighted here that this is not a mates thing in the SD, stalkers need to know what they are talking about and doing before they do an AW stalk.

Also, it should also be highlighted that if someone is to get 2 Credible stalks and then does an Accredited stalk, and the AW does not think that they make the grade. It is going to look less plausible in front of the Assessor and the external verifier.

I am only trying to highlight that there are issues out there and everyone should be aware and prepared before doing their stalks.

J
 
I recently registered for my DSC2 so am curretly evauating potential witnessess. If the SD can play a role in helping me achieve this I would welcome it... more than happy to "keep it in the family" so to speak
 
I am nowhere near my DSC 2 yet, but I think that this is a fantastic idea, and yet another way that this site outshines many others I have visited.

I hope that this gets off the ground and will certainly take advantage of it when the time comes around for my DSC2 (and hopefully even contribute to it in the future and put a little back when I'm old and wise :eek: )

Gez
 
Jingzy,

I put the price in as an indicator that getting your level 2 by using witnesses from this site is not a free ride, there will be a cost implication great or small, and that is for the applicant to sort out with the witness.

As for people being disgruntled, it will happen failures will occur it is life. I would like to think that people taking advantage of any witness location scheme that we can offer, which has hopefully weeded out the greedy ones, will do so realising that there is a requirement on their part to reach the required standard.

As for a clash of opinion between various witnesses, that will surely happen no matter what. However if it could be that all witnesses involved in this scheme were singing off the same hymn sheet it would be a start. The ability to spot a white buck before the shot springs to mind.

Anyway, the nitty gritty of costs, what is expected etc would be sorted out by the relevant parties prior to the stalk.

John
PS I have had a few people contact me with details.
 
This idea is very commendable but I feel it will only be re-advertising what is already freely available to any potential DMQ candidate.
The list of AWs and locations is given with the portfolio when it is issued.
All that needs to be 'advertised' on here is what each AW is expecting for his services or what he is able to offer followed by a 'report' by the Candidate referring to the AW by No only.
Then those that are needing the services of an AW can read and decide if they wish to use that particular AW.
E McC AW74
 
Aw

I will be happy to help as an AW.
My only worry is that some novice stalkers with no ground themselves and having just passed DSC 1, might view the generosity of others on this site as an opportunity of a cheap accompanied stalk before they are actually up to the assessment having maybe never even culled an animal. I appreciate that this can happen anyway but would like to highlight to potential candidates that it is quite a high level to achieve and is worth considering a 'training' trip out with someone rather than go straight into an assessed one and make a hash of it. Just a thought? :)
 
There is no point siting an assessment or test if you are not ready and i have also given my concerns to Jon about this . I feel if it is your own ground then a small fee would be enough. If the candidate turns up and is not up to the required standard then it would be easy at that point to turn it in to a lesson. All would not be lost and both should go away happy. If the chap has his own ground then i would assume he has already started deerstalking and should be ready for assessment no charge for this except expenses. If again the chap is not up to the required standard then a lesson would take place were the assessment should have been.
 
:eek: I agree with you 6.5. :eek:

This is again where the system falters as those that make the rules state that you are not allowed to teach someone if they are on an assessment. This is something that I completely disagree with.

:evil: Rules are sometimes made to be broken :evil:
 
Jingzy , I agree there.

Sceario

You are an aw and the person you are with shoots a doe and 2 kids, shots are ok

He grallochs the first and makes a few mistakes

Do you let him go ahead and make an arse of the nxt 2

or

You gralloch the 2nd giving instruction

If he then grallochs the 3rd without any help and he's met the criteria then you can sign him of with that one.

There must be room for instruction on any assessment as long as you make it clear as to when you are assessing and when you are instructing.

The AW must be given some freedom to make these decisions and will note any instruction on the day on the descriptor
 
bambislayer said:
There must be room for instruction on any assessment as long as you make it clear as to when you are assessing and when you are instructing.
You must be very clear here. Assessment and instruction should not overlap. This is what the AW guide says:
As your role is to witness the candidate, you must not offer or provide any training or guidance during the assessment phase of the stalk or subsequent handling of carcasses, nor should you lead the candidate in any way. It is acceptable however to halt an assessment, demonstrate a skill to the candidate or allow them to practice it, then resume assessment and have the candidate repeat the demonstration of that skill under assessment conditions.
We need to be strictly standardised in exacly what we do or it will discredit the whole system.
This is not a "monkey see- monkey do" assessment as anyone can repeat what they have just seen. Candidates need to be up to standard BEFORE starting the assessment. As I said previously - if you are in doubt, get some training done first to avoid any embarassment. ;)
 
That was just what i was trying to get at, maybe not too clearly.

Having 1 to 1 instructional outings would maybe be a way of ironing out faults before going on an assessed stalk.
 
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