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Thread: Restrictive conditions help

  1. #1

    Restrictive conditions help

    Hi guys a friend is applying for his first fac has a shotgun cert for 4 years has been using rf cf rifle off and on ,has land to use around 1500 acres which has been cleared I should no as I shoot the same land ,he is applying for fac air,223,.17 hmr and 6.5x55 swede he is applying for fox,vermin etc and paid deer stalking on the swede he has never been stalking but has paid stalks booked and will do his dsc1 depending on how the application go's he and I are both B.A.S.C members......

    I'm also applying for the swede for deer stalking but have had fac for 6 months i have the the other above calibres...

    My mate had a visit from an feo he said he should have done 10 stalks already and 5 booked he has three booked he has got to have a mentor neither of us no any deerstalkers so can only go on paid stalks anyway also got to have a mentor for the cleared land the person who owns the land works away alot so can't practically be him.....

    How can we have a mentor if we don't no anybody? we would be happy to have only whilst accompanied by experenced stalker type of condition but He won't allow it looks like I have this to come from my deer calibre application

    Can somebody tell me where in the home office guidelines it states that conditions should not be restrictive etc and also what would you guys do in this circumstance? Thanks guys
    Last edited by MONGOOSE; 27-01-2012 at 14:55.

  2. #2
    10.33 Possible conditions which may be
    applied are listed at Appendix 3 as a guide
    to firearms licensing officers. They should
    be used, where the individual circumstances
    require it, to ensure consistency of practice
    between police forces (joke). Exceptionally, chief
    officers of police may impose other
    conditions appropriate to individual
    circumstances (another joke). As the courts have held
    (R v Cambridge Crown Court ex parte Buckland,
    1998) that there is no right of appeal against
    the imposition of conditions (as opposed to
    a refusal to grant or renew a certificate)
    chief officers will wish to be cautious in
    imposing conditions that might amount to
    a constructive refusal to grant or renew a
    certificate, that is additional conditions that
    would make possession or use so difficult as
    to be redundant in practice.
    Last edited by Si; 27-01-2012 at 14:09.
    "It's halfway down the hill, directly below that tree next to a rock that looks like a bell-end"

    Good deals with ~ deako ~ sakowsm ~ dryan ~ 2734neil ~ mo ~ riggers ~ mmbeatle ~ seanct ~ an du ru fox

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Si View Post
    10.33 Possible conditions which may be
    applied are listed at Appendix 3 as a guide
    to firearms licensing officers. They should
    be used, where the individual circumstances
    require it, to ensure consistency of practice
    between police forces (joke). Exceptionally, chief
    officers of police may impose other
    conditions appropriate to individual
    circumstances (another joke). As the courts have held
    (R v Cambridge Crown Court ex parte Buckland,
    1998) that there is no right of appeal against
    the imposition of conditions (as opposed to
    a refusal to grant or renew a certificate)
    chief officers will wish to be cautious in
    imposing conditions that might amount to
    a constructive refusal to grant or renew a
    certificate, that is additional conditions that
    would make possession or use so difficult as
    to be redundant in practice.
    So does that mean we are screwed even if we appeal against the above conditions we can't is that what they are saying? Thanks for your reply mate

  4. #4
    What it means is, if we agree to the conditions then we have to adhere to them.... but if we reject the conditions it becomes a constructive refusal.

    So basically, if your FEO is insistant on you having a mentor and you say "I don't want a mentor" he would have to either grant a certificate without a menoring condition or issue a refusal.
    You have the right to appeal against refusal, but not conditions.
    "It's halfway down the hill, directly below that tree next to a rock that looks like a bell-end"

    Good deals with ~ deako ~ sakowsm ~ dryan ~ 2734neil ~ mo ~ riggers ~ mmbeatle ~ seanct ~ an du ru fox

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Si View Post
    What it means is, if we agree to the conditions then we have to adhere to them.... but if we reject the conditions it becomes a constructive refusal.

    So basically, if your FEO is insistant on you having a mentor and you say "I don't want a mentor" he would have to either grant a certificate without a menoring condition or issue a refusal.
    You have the right to appeal against refusal, but not conditions.
    How can he impose mentoring conditions if we don't have a deer stalking friend ?surely a paid deer stalking while accompanied would suffice in these instances? Cheers

  6. #6
    "Whilst accompanied by a competant deer stalker" is a commonly used condition.
    "It's halfway down the hill, directly below that tree next to a rock that looks like a bell-end"

    Good deals with ~ deako ~ sakowsm ~ dryan ~ 2734neil ~ mo ~ riggers ~ mmbeatle ~ seanct ~ an du ru fox

  7. #7
    That's what I thought and in regard to the number of stalks you need to have done I thought confirmed bookings was "good reason" to have a deer calibre so what is he on about 10 stalks and five bookings? Cheers mate

  8. #8
    You could ask the Chief officers admin officer, Has the power to add conditions been passed fully to this feo?............... sounds very much like an isolated power trip by this feo, & will the Chief Constable back the wording this person has foisted on you?
    (The Unspeakable In Pursuit Of The Uneatable.) " If I can help, I will help!." Former S.A.C.S. member!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by finnbear270 View Post
    You could ask the Chief officers admin officer, Has the power to add conditions been passed fully to this feo?............... sounds very much like an isolated power trip by this feo, & will the Chief Constable back the wording this person has foisted on you?
    That's all I can think of is a power trip just another control on the firearms user ,my mate reckon he had tons of paperwork related to recent events he was there for nearly two hours

  10. #10
    I would phone the licensing office and ask for their policy WRT issuing deer cal rifles in writing.
    The force policy is what the licensing office create for their own force.
    E.G. Avon and Somerset requires that you satisfy one of the three following before they will give authority to acquire a deer cal rifle.
    1. Prior C/F experience.
    2. DSC1
    3. Mentored by someone who has a deer cal rifle.
    Be aware that land for deer stalking is sought after and in a worst case your mentor could cozy up to your land owner and you lose the land.

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