Dead puppy...who is to blame?

sam evans

Active Member
Three weeks ago I sold a GWP bitch puppy to a woman who had previous GWP experience and seemed competent to own a dog. The puppy was in good health, fully wormed and had it's first vaccination. They had been vet checked from day one as my wife is a vet. I would not have sold a dog with a known fault.

This evening we have come home to an answering machine massage from the new owner who says that the pup was at her vets being operated on for an intussusception. This is set to cost her £500+. On getting back to her she has had the pup put to sleep on the ground that she couldn't afford the bill and it will now cost her £200 but she has lost the pup and is now demanding a refund for the pup and some of the vet work.

An intussusception is telescoping of the gut, so one piece slides inside the other. This can be caused by inflammation of the gut be it viral, bacterial or parasitic (the pup was fully wormed with Drontal puppy liquid when it left us).

This puppy was one of 13 and no other puppy has any signs of any ill health. All are with new homes and are doing well.

I would be grateful to hear your opinions on my actions regarding whether I should give a refund and how I should handle the situation. I don't want to be unfair to the woman but I cant see how this is my fault.

Sam
 
Sam,

Very interesting thread, i think you will get many answers.

Mine is and will be based on if i where you sam.

I would ask the owner if the puppy was insured, then i would ask if the pup had shown signs of distress prior to today, i would then ask if the house is shared with other animals and if so what.

reasons,

insurance, if she is insured she will be out only her excess
this illness takes a few days to cause as serious an illness/infection to mean death and therefore the animal would be in some pain and not eating
other animals, obvious this infection didn't come from you so where has the pup been and to whom has the dog been in contact with

personally if it where i, i would offer half the excess or half the pup costs as only a good will gesture if your happy with the above.

i dont see how you will or could have a legal responsibility to do anything. 3 weeks is a long time.

good luck and sorry to hear the news,

F,
 
Did you not give the new owner any free insurance cover , I know that whenever I sell a puppy that I always activate the 4 week free insurance cover provided with the
Kennel Club registration . If your pups are not KC registered then there are still free insurance available through pet insurers such as Petplan Breeders Scheme .
I also request that new owners take their pup to the vet that they intend to use for its first vaccination and a health check within the first week of ownership.
 
Three weeks ago I sold a GWP bitch puppy to a woman who had previous GWP experience and seemed competent to own a dog. The puppy was in good health, fully wormed and had it's first vaccination. They had been vet checked from day one as my wife is a vet. I would not have sold a dog with a known fault.

This evening we have come home to an answering machine massage from the new owner who says that the pup was at her vets being operated on for an intussusception. This is set to cost her £500+. On getting back to her she has had the pup put to sleep on the ground that she couldn't afford the bill and it will now cost her £200 but she has lost the pup and is now demanding a refund for the pup and some of the vet work.

An intussusception is telescoping of the gut, so one piece slides inside the other. This can be caused by inflammation of the gut be it viral, bacterial or parasitic (the pup was fully wormed with Drontal puppy liquid when it left us).

This puppy was one of 13 and no other puppy has any signs of any ill health. All are with new homes and are doing well.

I would be grateful to hear your opinions on my actions regarding whether I should give a refund and how I should handle the situation. I don't want to be unfair to the woman but I cant see how this is my fault.

Sam

Was the pup kc registered buddy? Also it's a hard one really I can see it from both sides really if I brought a pup and a few weeks it was in the vets would probably not be happy ,but from a breeders point of view it's not your fault she could not afford the vets bills she should have had said pup insured and the reason pup was put down was because she could not afford the fees now that's certainly not your fault I would say sorry but I'm not giving a refund on those grounds, if it was insured and they tried all they could to save the pup and it died I would maybe come to some arrangement maybe would have offered 50% as a good will gesture
 
if these pups were kc reg the kc automatically give new owners 4 weeks free insurance on completion of owner transfer, if not then as said above I wouls want to know what circumstances surrounded the pup since leaving you, its a sad fact that these things happen and would hate to hear of any of my pups dying shortly after rehoming. I would offer as a gesture of good will to them half the cost of the euthenasia bill but would not be willing to refund the full cost of the pup, its a major risk to take when you buy a pup and they should be well aware of it, you did all the right things in rearing, vaccinating etc so have done nothing wrong nor take any blame.
I would suggest you offer your sincere apologies on their bad luck and some good will gesture.
Good Luck
 
Three weeks... no prior mention of health issues? no suggestion of deterioration or concern from the new owner, till now?

Do you feel in any way at fault or to blame?

Do you sell puppies by way of business or just as an occasional consequence of breeding for your own needs?

i.e. Have you any business good will to try and protect?
 
TBH I wouldn't sell to any one who didn't have the means to pay a £500 vets bill or have the sense to insure.

That doesn't help you, in your own heart know wheather or not you sold in good faith, if the answer is you did then dont give her a penny. If there is the slightest doubt give her her money back

Dave
 
I don't know much about dogs or selling puppies but if you are selling 13 puppies at £x a time then I am sure you made enough money . Selling items or livestock you would always expect to account for a return/mortality rate that would reduce you overall profitability when selling large quantities. How much did you make selling the puppies? On the other hand I do agree with the above post that if the puppy was that valuable to her she should have had it insured from day one of her ownership. Perhaps a good will payment would be appropriate.
 
No contact until the finality of the situation has hit her.
not your fault, if the pup was diagnosed with a pre-existing condition then you notify the breeder then, not after it has been put down!

terribly sorry madam, I am not liable for a condition that happens after the sale.
if they were wormed prior to sale you are covered for any issue caused by parasitic infection after the sale.

sad tale, but it didnt happen overnight
 
three weeks is along time in the life of a young pup it could have picked up anything anywhere ,you have no real idea how it has been treated since it left your hands i'd be sympathetic but wouldn't give a refund perhaps you could offer her a pup the next time you breed a litter
 
My pup was insured from the day he was 8 weeks old as that was as soon as the insurance company would do it,but he is covered for everything as no known conditions.Also if he dies before the age of 9 I get my purchase cost back,as had been said where has the pup been for all you know she could have been walking the pup in the park every day.

Also sometimes s**t happens and it's no one fault that's just life,would she be knocking on your door if this had happened in 6 months time?
It must be hard for the woman but maybe it was just not meant to be.
 
Thank you for your comments so far. To answer some questions, no the puppy hadn't been insured by the owner and regrettably we didn't offer free insurance at point of sale. There is no doubt in mine nor my wife's mind that the pup was in full health when it left us. The woman also signed an agreement stating that we recommend taking the pup to her vets within a few days of purchase for a full health check and if any faults were found, she could return it with a full refund.

My parting words to the woman and her partner were that if they had any problems what so ever, they should contact us directly as I or my wife, the vet, should surely be able to help.

Sam
 
Ever heard the saying "where there is livestock there is dead stock".
Sorry after three weeks and she could not afford the bill well thats tough.
Not everyone insures their dogs.
There must be a multitude of things that could cause it.
I think I would keep quiet for know about your'e Mrs being a vet, just incase they try to push it.
I could understand them contacting you to tell you, but thats life I'm afraid.

ATB with this

Nick
 
Sam,
Just read your last post, I would say you have done all you can, maybe try and find out who their vet is ?
 
We do know who the vet is. My wife is trying to get a full clinical report for what has happened and we would even want the body back so a post mortem could be carried out.
 
Bit after the fact but is it worth the cost of a post mortem and would it clear anything up?

Am at a bit of a loss as to why she agreed to have the operation done and not be aware of any cost she was going to incur, maybe the tight Yorkshire man in me. Also did the vet call her half way through the procedure to tell her what they had found, if not then surely they had finished the operation and she will have to stump up the whole cost.
Don't get the answer phone message dog at the vets op £500 to dog put to sleep £200 couldn't afford the op?

If it were me and I was going to refund the woman her whole purchase price I would want the return of the pups body as it is now your property,maybe I am an old cynic but is the pup dead or is this a fast one to get half the vets fee paid.

Sorry if that seems harsh but not everyone in the world is honest.
 
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Look in to the details some owners feel its your responsibility when it is not it is there's you don't get a manufactures warranty with a pup. I have a woman ask me for a stud fee back from my border terrier because her bitch got hit with a car at eight weeks. Some people you just need to write it off.
 
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