Don't stand for it!!!....

Good spot Si. :thumb:

I'd suggest that anyone who is suffering delays in issuing take note of the contents and act on them - don't leave yourself exposed.

And for those who somehow believe that applicants should go along with FEO & FLDs 'suggestions' for fear of reprisals, have a read of this extract:

"Too many gun owners mistakenly believe the police will find some way of getting their own back if they’re taken to task for giving poor service. This is not the case.

My experience is that complaining eventually gets the right result even though the police may wriggle a bit in the process.

One Deputy Chief Constable assured me the police couldn’t get their act together well enough to do this anyway! And an Assistant Chief Constable told me that any member of staff found to be victimising certificate holders would be disciplined".


In other words, stand up for yourself if what you are requesting is within the legislation.
 
If you’re applying for an initial grant, allow about 8 weeks and for a variation 2-3 weeks. Anything outside this merits a complaint.

try 6 months...you have to laugh....
 
If you’re applying for an initial grant, allow about 8 weeks and for a variation 2-3 weeks. Anything outside this merits a complaint.

try 6 months...you have to laugh....

................................ or complain. ;)
 
let me join one of the shooting associations first, get some legal cover, before I rock any boats....
 
Well from past experience I waited near 12 months for my initial Fac to be processed,they have you by the short and curly s,I already held a shotgun cert for over 25 yrs previous to my FAC.
But it was down to insufficient staff, some on holiday leave and others on maternity leave,land checks with other counties caused months of delays and further checks on my mentor also caused it being delayed.

But all came good in the end and with a bit of patience and a few letters, they opened up my ticket sooner than usual.
 
jonevo,

Can't agree with you that "they have you by the short and curly s" in any way, shape or form.

They're not gifting you anything so if there are any unwarranted delays you simply have to make a complaint if you don't feel that you are receiving the service that you should.

As the article says, "If enough folk complain the message will eventually get through".

Do nothing and it will won't get any better. Who knows, you might have even received your FAC within 8 weeks if you had. :D
 
Orion,well its quite easy for the chief officer or the head of firearms not to allow, or grant an application, for any number of reasons.
It was once challenged in a court and the ruling went against the applicant.

from another forum quote "The Firearms Licensing Depts to whom I spoke and the police's own Solicitors confirmed what I thought, namely that they [Police] generally never lose the on the Appeal Revocation and invariablyget [their] costs even against unrep appellants.Last one I spoke to said the unrep Appellant got hit for £1500.That, plus Counsel wanting £750 plus vat plus my fee meant Appellant liable for the thick end of three thousand pounds.It appears the best way forward is for client to wait 2-3 years and apply de novo for the Licences "


As I have said previously, its quite easy for the police NOT to grant a certificate and can find many reasons NOT to allow the applicant one.

unless you have deep pockets :eek:
 
Orion,well its quite easy for the chief officer or the head of firearms not to allow, or grant an application, for any number of reasons.
It was once challenged in a court and the ruling went against the applicant.

from another forum quote "The Firearms Licensing Depts to whom I spoke and the police's own Solicitors confirmed what I thought, namely that they [Police] generally never lose the on the Appeal Revocation and invariablyget [their] costs even against unrep appellants.Last one I spoke to said the unrep Appellant got hit for £1500.That, plus Counsel wanting £750 plus vat plus my fee meant Appellant liable for the thick end of three thousand pounds.It appears the best way forward is for client to wait 2-3 years and apply de novo for the Licences "


As I have said previously, its quite easy for the police NOT to grant a certificate and can find many reasons NOT to allow the applicant one.

unless you have deep pockets :eek:

I was under the impression that basc would appoint a solicitor to fight your case etc to help with appeals but apparently they won't unless it's a garenteed victory, I think one of the Scottish accosiations will pay for a solicitor and think that's the reason why many won't fight the case for an appeal
 
Orion,well its quite easy for the chief officer or the head of firearms not to allow, or grant an application, for any number of reasons.
It was once challenged in a court and the ruling went against the applicant.

from another forum quote "The Firearms Licensing Depts to whom I spoke and the police's own Solicitors confirmed what I thought, namely that they [Police] generally never lose the on the Appeal Revocation and invariablyget [their] costs even against unrep appellants.Last one I spoke to said the unrep Appellant got hit for £1500.That, plus Counsel wanting £750 plus vat plus my fee meant Appellant liable for the thick end of three thousand pounds.It appears the best way forward is for client to wait 2-3 years and apply de novo for the Licences "


As I have said previously, its quite easy for the police NOT to grant a certificate and can find many reasons NOT to allow the applicant one.

unless you have deep pockets :eek:

I am in no position to dispute the above, but I'm not sure that it follows that one of the reasons they might deny you a FAC is that you complained that 12 months was too long to wait for then to carry our their lawful duties.

If you think a 12month wait is OK, that's up to you. I don't know what you imagine is 'sooner than usual' for removing terretorial conditions, but whatever it is I wouldn't factor that into the equation at all. These conditions are meant to improve public safety, not to be applied so that their removal may become a token of condescending favour bestowed by the FLD on a supine, biddable population of FAC-holders who are so fearful of retribution in the form of loss of such dubious 'favours' that they have no will to complain about even the slowest, most unlawfully restricitve FLD regimes.
 
Dalua, I would tend to agree with you, however, the vast majority of law abiding shooters do not have a full understanding of the system, and any kind of legal action is alien to them.

Of course the fact that the licencing system in the UK is so open to interpretation, and to your local force imposing their own conditions with very little chance of any comeback, does not help in this. Just look at this legal issues section of the website to see how difficult the average Joe finds it to wade through the multifarious layers of legalese, legislation and instruments of law, police powers and certificate holders responsibilities and it points to a system in disarray.

Unfortunately the police have become used to their word being law in these cases. The police are there to uphold the law, not make it up on the spot, so I am very worried when I hear stories of forces giving patently false information. Even more worrying is the self important, arrogant attitude of some in the police firearms licencing departments. I have heard stories of licencing department staff coming up with such gems as "If I tell you to stand on one leg and wear a red hat whilst shooting, that's what you'll do" (I paraphrase, the exact wording was different but the meaning was the same).

So yes, people probably should complain more, but then again how many can risk having to spend thousands on legal fees? It's far easier to jump the hurdles as and when they are thrown in front of you and try to do it their way.
 
So yes, people probably should complain more, but then again how many can risk having to spend thousands on legal fees? It's far easier to jump the hurdles as and when they are thrown in front of you and try to do it their way.

+1

I was told by a nice man at SACS 'do everything they ask with bells on until you get your license as legal cover from most if not all shooting associations do not cover applications, but they will cover renewals revokes ect ect'

I have an ammo box for shotgun cartridges 2 locks on my under stairs larder door to prevent access by my wife to the gun cabinet....which has 2 locks and a trigger lock on the gun itself...I look like a chuffin prison warden with all the keys I carry!!
 
Some years ago my variation and renewal was taking longer than i deemed acceptable, so i wrote to the head of the department complaining and stating that it was not acceptable. I remember posting the letter on new years eve on the way to the pub, my feo was on the phone by the 3rd Jan apologising and was round soon after to sort it all out, I also got a letter from the office manager apologising for the delay. So fair play to them for standing up to it.
I have found that they have been nothing but helpful since and i am generally impressed with Thames valley firearms dept.

I was under the impression that if you can demonstrate need for a firearm and are a suitable person with land to shoot over they have to grant the licence, its not something they can say no to without a good reason, with that in mind why would anyone presenting a genuine application be afraid to rock the boat.
 
Back
Top