Bavarians are great

sikamalc

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Many on here have got good deer dogs, all of them cherished and loved, but I would just recount this weekend just gone as I am very pleased with Todd my Bavarian hound.

His farther is from Polish stock and is/was the Polish Field trial champion. His mother is from a non working home, although both her parents were working from Poland.

It is true what they say about the breed, they are very loving, gentle, kind dogs with their owners and most folk they meet. I was introduced to the breed by a good friend of mine who has a dog and bitch and is over the moon with their hunting and tracking abilities. Todd is so gentle with my grandchildren, I have no worries about him with them what so ever. But deer, well thats a different matter.

This past weekend Todd, who is still less than 3 years of age, undertook 3 retrieves on three Roe, two in one morning. One in particular was a very tricky trail/hunt which resulted in the dog baying the deer and holding it in place. Without the dog we would have probably had a problem, but he performed so well it felt like I had won the lottery, I am chuffed to bits with him.

It just goes to show that even at my age you still get excited :rolleyes: and I am very much hooked on this breed, to me you cannot get a better dog for deer.

One very very chuffed stalker :D

Sikamalc
 
Sounds like you have a cracker there Malc.
i fancy getting one but have 2 spaniels which are still working and no more room, oh and 2 kids , still even less room :lol:

All the best
Jonathon
 
Must be one hell of a strong hound to retrieve a roe deer back to its owner :evil: :evil: :evil:

Mark
 
Yes Mark H Todd is a very strong, intelligent dog. Thank you for pointing that out to everyone.

Perhaps retrieve would be the wrong word to describe the events of last weekend, but I know what I meant and many others probably do as well, especially Nick and Andy who accompanied myself and Todd. This is what one would expect from a Bavarian, and keeping the breed true is to my mind the best way forward.

I will admit that I personally do not agree with cross breeding Bavarians with other breeds, although some folk seem to think this is the way to go. :evil: :evil: All I can say is that having known of this breed for about 5 years and what they are capable of they are the deer dog for me. Thats my opinion and I stick by it!! ;)
 
Malc,

Do you find yours distructive, A friend of a friend in the South East has one, I belive it was one of the first in the UK.

So far it has eaten the inside of his car, his Blackberry and Sav Nav.

I didn't know if it was breed trait or he was unlucky.
 
I was considering a Bavarian as my next deer dog but was persuaded off the idea by a friend who is an out and out GWP man.

I want a deer dog that will accompany me at heel during stalking and can be "let loose" to follow up a blood trail into cover.

Is this possible with a Bavarian or are they more of a leave in the car while stalking and follow up using a tracking lead???

I did notice that on the River Cottage Roe stalking feature that Jan Andrew's bavarian plodded away at her heel while stalking but is this uncommon?

Cheers

Ben
 
Ben P said:
Is this possible with a Bavarian or are they more of a leave in the car while stalking and follow up using a tracking lead???
Doesn't sound like you should leave one in your car if you look at the post above yours! :lol:
 
Just to add
After witnessing How todd worked at the week end i would rate him as 1 of the best deer dogs ive seen. He is absoloutly fantastic at what he does & after chatting with malc he has recieved minimal training. He accompanied us on every stalk over the weekend & obeyed every command. todd is a natural at what he does & spending all day & night with him in the field & home he makes an excellent all rounder.
As Malc said he found & beyed 1 particular Roe & without him i honestly think we would not of found the deer. :oops:

FESTER
 
Rubeus.

In answer to your question, yes my Bavarian chewed as an adolescent dog.

Now, NO! He is a kennel dog, although he comes indoors in the evening and whilst away he is in his cage in the back of my crewcab when travelling and this weekend in the kitchen in his cage at night. He has only fouled his cage once when he ate something he shouldnt have done :rolleyes: since I have had him and he is 3 in March.

As an adolescent pup he chewed a great deal, but most dogs do!! As a small puppy he was often rocked to sleep by me as I believe with a dog such as this the important thing is the bond from the start between the owner and the dog.

The people I bought him from used a large concrete garage as whelping area for the bitch, and Bavarians need close contact all the time and I think the pups were a bit isolated from humans.

However they are beautiful dogs with a kind laid back temperment, and enjoy a great deal of affection. They are also very loyal dogs and it is in the breed to track deer, that is all they were ever bred for, unlike labradors or terriers which to be honest are not specifically bred for tracking and blood spooring deer. Although I am not knocking these breeds, some are very good, I am just saying if you are going to get a dog for deer work, get a breed that is bred for the job it has to do.

Ben, they will walk to heel and they will sit at the bottom of a high seat, much depends on how YOU train the dog.

Todd will walk off the lead, but I keep him on the lead most times, or on a loose noose around and over my shoulder. He will sit on command with a rasied hand when we are on deer. And he will tell you when deer are in front long before you see them. Training a dog for deer work is not a 5 minute job and does involve a great deal of patience. But Bavarians are bred for this purpose.

To give you some idea, the Field Trial standard I believe is a blood trail layed over 24 hours ago, which consists of 1 ltr of blood over a 2kilometer course :eek: Bavarians as a rule can accomplish this if trained appropriatly.
 
>So far it has eaten the inside of his car, his Blackberry and Sav Nav.

>I didn't know if it was breed trait or he was unlucky.



My Hanoverian/Bavarian cross chewed things whilst growing up, much more so than my springer.

She ate the VCR remote once, but that is the most expensive thing she has had!
 
The Elite Test used on the continent is 1000 metres and 40 hours old, with a maximum of 100 ml of blood if using scent shoes :eek:

All the dogs I've ever seen working on live or layed trails work differently, so long as you recover the deer breed isn't important.

But the Bavarian has my vote :D
 
Chewing

As a breed, I don't think they are more prone to chewing than any other, however as the jaw plates don't 'fix' until 2 1/2 to 3 years, it could be that they are still teething, eventhough the adult teeth are in.
A dog will chew in the car as it's bored and fustrated, if you can't stop it chewing, then take away it's opportunity to chew i.e dog cage etc.

In respect of what the dog does when stalking, then it will do what it's trained to do. You don't open a tin marked ' Deer tracking dog' and out they come :lol:
 
MarkH said:
Must be one hell of a strong hound to retrieve a roe deer back to its owner :evil: :evil: :evil:

Mark

What Bavarian's don't retrieve roe deer? :confused: Blood hell you should have got a GWP. My bitch has been know to retrieve juvenile roe kids, and I don’t mean drag them backwards, she holds them by the throat and walks with their body parallel to her body. She struggles when she gets to a stock fence though. :lol: :lol:

Best rgds

Tahr
 
I think sikamalc hit the nail on the head, you get back the time you put in, they will do whatever you train them to do. Make them a close part of your team and invest time and some thought into their training and you get a great dog out of all the deer breeds.

As far as detructive goes, the humble labrador will take some beating, I had one that literaly ate all of its kennel over 2 years, once past the phase w now leave her in the house with total confidence.

I am a great believer in the lead or shoulder line for deer dogs as malc uses, sooner or later most working dogs have a revelation that says I know what I do next and off they go. No pheasant shoot would be complete without a spectacular run in would it.

If trained on it propoerly they dont pull or muck you about, equally they are never tempted to help you out when you shoot an animal and get cracking on the tracking, giving you the chance to shoot a second or maybe third.

Deer retrivers, I stalked in east germany for boar and the keeper there had a wire hair which was enourmous, he would chuck it out of the Trabant as we drove along as it has wind worse than me, and it would follow us all day at the gallop. We would stop and shoot the odd Roe as we checked the pig feeding places and it would retrieve them. One evening he went out to get more beer and left it in the room with me and it growled every time i moved, frightened the sh1t out of me.
 
Thanks for the reply Sikamalc.
I am glad that it is a training issue as oppossed to a breed issue.
I had had it likened to trying to train a pointer to be a sheepdog to get them to walk to heel etc while stalking.
Now I have to decide between a wire haired viszla or a bavarian as my next deer dog!
All the best
Ben
 
BenP. Training a dog for deer work never ever stops. Everytime you are out the dog learns something different as does the owner.

All deer have their own specific scent, Todd loves Sika and Roe, I have yet to have him on Chinese Water Deer or Muntjac. Teaching them to walk steady off the lead starts at the puppy stage, and I have never ever used a collar on my dog. He has always worn a harness. I would advise you to use a harness over a collar whichever dog you decide on, it is far easier to control the dog, and does not put undue pressure on their neck all the time. With Bavarians they are always scenting the ground or air and a harness gives them more freedom to do their job.

If you are looking to purchase a Bavarian, you may like to contact the Bavarian Club in the UK, of which I am a member. They will try and help you source a litter of puppies, although they are few and far between, and they must be worked.

All the best

Sikamalc
 
I see you guys using hounds prefer to use a line when tracking, now if you know the deer has “run dead” and you just want to located it fine. But if it is leg shot/ jaw shot or just has a flesh wound you will never catch the deer up while the dog is attached to you. Even if it is liver or gut shot surely in the interest of deer welfare you want your dog to catch and dispatch the deer if it is capable or bail the deer ASAP so the deer’s suffering can come to an end as soon as possible. Not prolong it by following the deer for hours attached to a line until the deer just give up though exhaustion, or you do leaving a wounded deer in the wood. :cry:

Am I missing something here? :confused:

What practical use to the UK deer stalker is the ability to follow a 40 hour trail?

Best rgds

Tahr
 
Tahr

imagine if you hav by chance, say gut shot one a good red stag
it runs and then 150 yards on lies up
you set your dog on the blood trail, dog catches up at speed and you are now 100 yards away at the closet
deer gets up runs on again ,dog now intow ,you are now further behind deer stops confronts dog who is not big enough or brave enough to go in for the kill, so just stands and bays, deer attacks dog, dog gets speared by an antler you approach and deer runs off no shot available
what do you do, see to the dog or go looking for this injured deer that has run on again
or another one
fallow deer gut shot it ran, dog gave chase , causing the deer to carry on running ,it makes the boundary fence into the next farm or estate (which you don't hav permission to stalk or recover the beast from) , dog still in tow,
finaly, catches the deer and nails it
neighbouring farmer or stalker/ landowner which ever saw this, called the police, what happens next......
another one
CWD gut shot, stalker set his dog off on the trail off the lead
his deer dog is a cocker spaniel
dog bumped up the deer it ran on , dog caught it up turned it , the deer ran on again this happened several times about 6 in total before a shot was finaly taken to secure the deer, how far the deer had run, i don't know but it was quite a while after he took the finishing shot,
if in any of these instances a dog on a tracking lead would of lead u closer to the deer where you could of got close for a shot no problem of bumping the deer to run on and no further problems
i do see where you are coming from but to hav a dog working loose is not always the best solution or quickest way to dispatch an injured deer
a tracking lead will proove its worth time and time again
horses for courses on this i am afraid
as not every one will hav several thousand acres in which the deer can run and be caught , in the event of a badly placed shot for what ever reasons,
a lot of stalkers i know, hav blocks of just a few hundred acres with even main roads , railway lines and canals running through them , and even public access on them
a deer being chased won't care to much about which path it chooses or about the green x code
but on the tracking lead it may just give u the chance to get close to a deer that has lay up albeit half hour or more later
as for jaw shot , well i hav known them to hav been finished off several miles from where the initial shot was taken, often a good dog will never catch up with those ones
just looking at it from some situations i hav been told about and been in myself
ATB
stone
 
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