Single Farm Payment

widows son

Well-Known Member
Tamus theres another one you can get on to, since your on about benefits the single farm payment its a benefit is it not .

Lets get all the witch hunts over in the one go .
 
Tamus theres another one you can get on to, since your on about benefits the single farm payment its a benefit is it not .

Lets get all the witch hunts over in the one go .
Well that could irritate my neighbours and many chums in the pub but as one of them said he would be happy to not have the payment if all the red tape could go at the same time.atb Tim
 
If there was a true free market there would be no need for sfp, but people would have to pay the true rate of the food they eat, people will moan if a pint of milk cost £3 but think nothing of paying £5 for beer, food is now at it cheapest ever in relation to what people spend on other good.
 
If there was a true free market there would be no need for sfp, but people would have to pay the true rate of the food they eat, people will moan if a pint of milk cost £3 but think nothing of paying £5 for beer, food is now at it cheapest ever in relation to what people spend on other good.

Ah Taff the bigger picture mmmmm.

Well it's another tax on the population, that again only the people that work pay for, to be honest if they were to do away with all the benefits, that the lazy element get ,then with everyone back in work not draining the resources we may just be able to pay the correct prices of having quality produce .

Then in the same context the single farm payment is give to small holders that don't have and livestock WHY or only have a couple of sheep or a horse, pony these people are not farmers ,they kid thereselves on they are .wearing a pair of mucks boots and a flat cap .
 
Tamus theres another one you can get on to, since your on about benefits the single farm payment its a benefit is it not .

Lets get all the witch hunts over in the one go .

Sorry, I literally just caught this thread, or I'd have responded sooner.

I'll pm you my business name if you like and you can check the government website yourself.

The fact is we take NO Single Farm Payment, or any other subsidy. I refused them on the terms of the deal alone.

Food production needs to be subsidised to keep it cheap in this country and yet the SFP is a decoupling of subsidy from production, my first gripe.

SFP is supposedly compensation for compliance with food production regulations, my second gripe (who else gets paid just to obey the law?)

SFP is also supposedly paid to aid compliance with animal welfare regulations, my third gripe (as gripe two, why should anyone need paid to obey fatuous laws?)

And to my final gripe... the first three had my neighbours think me odd, btw... The deal is open ended, farmers sign up to rules which they MUST obey to gain the payments, on pain of serious penalty for any, even minor, default... but those rules which bind them are able to be "renegotiated" at will by our government... that's not a good deal on anyone's terms and my neighbours now hate how they are hamstrung by the agreements they made which is constantly changing and leaving them worse and worse off... Not so odd now, I can run my land as I please, within the law and do not fear any knock at the door and spot inspection which might reveal three sheep have lost their eartags and so I must lose 25% of that year's margin to live on. Who can live with that sort of threat... every SFP claimant has to. The truth is we manage just fine "outside" of SFP though I have to admit it is a challenge, but not impossible.

Incidentally my benefit claiming neighbour claims every penny of his SFP entitlement, but I guess you'd expect that, on his 7 acres "Farm".

I bet you didn't expect that answer.
 
We only have 20 acres and have never had a payment of any body mind you we dont grow anything except grass

Mark
 
Tamus the problem you have is even though you don,t collect your sfp you still have to abide by the rules, if your sheep don,t have tags you will be fined
As to who else gets paid to obey the law well not many,that's why we have no industry left in this country and Europe.
Ws if you have just horses you cannot claim sfp
Sfp was forced through mainly by the French where every one is a farmer, farming is possible without susidys but if you want to be able to walk where you like, tell us you can,t do this you can,t do that then the tax payer has to pay for it.
 
Tamus the problem you have is even though you don,t collect your sfp you still have to abide by the rules, if your sheep don,t have tags you will be fined
As to who else gets paid to obey the law well not many,that's why we have no industry left in this country and Europe.
Ws if you have just horses you cannot claim sfp
Sfp was forced through mainly by the French where every one is a farmer, farming is possible without susidys but if you want to be able to walk where you like, tell us you can,t do this you can,t do that then the tax payer has to pay for it.

Well, all stock I own is correctly tagged, always!

But, that aside, the only fine realistically imposable in the scenario I suggested above is the removal of SFP + Penalty.
 
Tamus the problem you have is even though you don,t collect your sfp you still have to abide by the rules, if your sheep don,t have tags you will be fined
QUOTE]

I let that statement pass earlier, but I'm actually pretty fed up reading utter clap-trap like this talked about all manner of law. Usually on here it's about imaginery law applying to shooting but it's refreshing to have a change from time to time, I guess.

So, please tell the good ladies and gentlemen who visit these pages (and me) just what law and more precisely, what fine you think would apply to me even if I ever did have an animal not correctly tagged or failed to obey any other of these "so called" rules, for that matter. Just out of interest, you understand. :lol:
 
Don't take SFP and not being a farmer but having between 70-120 head of stock at a time I sought official advice. Line was, abbatoir TAG, sale TAG, move TAG, but they do lose thier TAGS I said, so what happens with that then I asked....when its identified we should re-TAG it !!! Read of it what you will.
 
Tamus, firstly you were the one who used the example of untagged sheep I never implied you had untagged sheep, secondly your local trading standards agency has the right to inspect Your livestock and make sure tagging and movement documents are up together failure to comply can result in various measures being taken, obviously the first is to advise you to remedy your mistakes. I shall find the answer out for you about what fines or punishments you may be liable for.
If you are unsure of your liability to carry out correct tagging please feel free to check out the Defra site where you will find all the information required.
Edit I could post the guidance here for you but I think it's about 100 pages.
 
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I had a really intelligent in depth view of the SFP to write on here. Now dont have the time, as mine has just come through the door. Off to get my new Range Rover ordered. Maybe a couple of Z6's too!!

GT
 
Tamus, firstly you were the one who used the example of untagged sheep I never implied you had untagged sheep, secondly your local trading standards agency has the right to inspect Your livestock and make sure tagging and movement documents are up together failure to comply can result in various measures being taken, obviously the first is to advise you to remedy your mistakes. I shall find the answer out for you about what fines or punishments you may be liable for.
If you are unsure of your liability to carry out correct tagging please feel free to check out the Defra site where you will find all the information required.
Edit I could post the guidance here for you but I think it's about 100 pages.

No anwswer to my questions then.

Here, let me.

Trading standards would have to suspect a crime and would require to be accompanied by a Police officer/s and be in possession of a search warrant before they would have any inspection "rights" on a non SFP claimants property. You would be entitled to tell them to go away and only come back when they had the required paperwork and Polis, on pain of your seeking charges of nuisance and harassment against them otherwise.

There would not be a crime committed in any event. However, untagged animals would not be permitted to enter the food chain lawfully and that's pretty much it.
 
Taff, and anyone else still reading this thread.

Possibily, I should start by pointing out you have strayed into my very own "high-horse" territory here. I have always been apalled at a couple of aspects to the subsidy issue in particular, long before SFP too.

On the one hand you have the likes of Widows son and the idiots who think farmers all run around in Range Rovers, who appear to believe that subsidised food production is a hand out to producers when actually it's a mechanism that was successful in guaranteeing stability of supply and low cost of food to the consumer. It has been the man, woman and child "in the street" who have reaped the benefits most. You can now see this is true as without direct support UK food production/self sufficiency is declining more rapidly than melting snow off a dyke in spring, all because there is now so little return for the input and investment and the consequence is a steady and inexorable rise in the cost of food, at a rate unprecedented since before WW2.

On the other hand, you have farmers who so are desperate to cling onto viable businesses that they sign away their own common civil rights in order to take the Queen's shilling. On accepting support payments in the past and Single Farm Payment now, applicants agree to give over powers to DEFRA and all the other agencies, which Amnesty International and the like should be concerned about. Claimants can be searched without warning or explanation at any time of day or night, their businesses stopped dead in their tracks, regardless of consequence and they have to suffer ALL the associated costs and inconveniences without so much as a murmur all the while praying that the outcome for any minor actual transgressions isn't ruination. The Police themselves envy the powers these organisations have to search without warrant or delay and seize all they require till the case is investigated without the poor claimant having anything to say about it. Please note, there is absolutely NO come-back for the trouble they put producers to if all is as it should be. Why should an innocent man be afraid?... why indeed. It's a disgrace.

The worst of it is, that it is all done in the name's of "food safety" and "animal welfare", when actually you only need to look at the money flow to see what it is really about. The amount spent on "farming" in the UK includes the amount spent on these government agencies, whose budgets have grown like topsy while farmers net incomes and actual food production have plummeted. Has food safety and animal welfare actually benefitted? I suspect only by the amount that proper application of existing law would have done anyway. And if it's all so wonderful in safeguarding us why are disease outbreaks now so much more dramatic and widespread than they were generations ago???

We have a lot of service men and I presume women who visit this sight. Their contribution in safeguarding the nation and the efforts they make are rightly applauded and respected. Defending us with their lives is honourable and good. It all always strikes me as odd that farmers who feed us and make life sustainable at all are seldom afforded the same goodwill. Shame on you if you don't realise the value of farming in the UK and the reason why you should support those who give over their lives to feeding you. Incidentally farmers grow old farming, they don't retire after a relatively brief term of service to a handy pension and new lives after they've done their time.

Was that a good rant then? :D
 
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Often wondered what would happen to food prices if farmers had the protection afforded the rest of the working population by the working time directive:doh:. If farmers only worked a 48 hour week I do fear prices would change.

I read some statistics the other day on accidents on farms and one thing that was so obvious was the number of accidents involving people over the age of 65. Can't think of many other professions that contribute so handsomely to these accident at work stats, at that age.
 
Tamus a good rant indeed, I have not had a chance to reply due to getting up at 5.30 to check the ewes that are lambing and then loading the store lambs to take to laverstock for slaughter, moving the ponies and alpacas so we have enough parking for the public,emptyin the muck trailer and moving some quadrants of hay,so I will take your word for it as I am just going to have breakfast as I write this yes it is 13.27
 
With the hours the average farmers works,some (3am-10pm) & i know several that do 2 & 3 jobs also to subsidize there income to pay rent etc. With the conditions they work , (10-20 weeks of typical British weather , winds blowing 25+mph, snow ,so every bail has to be manually carried, sideways rain , 6" crud )& animals to be servants to. I personally no matter how much or many benefits are payed i would not be temped to do that job ! Any sps payment i am sure would not cover the amount of maintenance the places take, it must cost £££££'s.
There is graft then there donkey work, for little reward, & i mean back busting donkey work !! We should salute the framer of the British isles, they deserve every penny. Its not like they can give a weeks notice to go swanning off to Spain when they like , as some frilly sales person or banker is it now. :lol:
 
tamus hypothetically of course ,breaching the tagging rules would/could mean you end up with a movement restriction on your stock that would mean nothing in nothing out and the untagged animals destroyed as being not eligable to enter the food train
they may not have the sfp teeth to bite you with but they can and will just change mouths and bite you with different teeth
 
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