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Thread: Firearm security while on a shooting holiday?

  1. #1

    Firearm security while on a shooting holiday?

    Im going away with work on my annual trip to lossiemouth, im intending on taking my rifle and did the good thing of contacting the base to let them know there will be a rifle passing through the base. he in turn notified the local FLD as he has to.

    Matey at Lossie called me back with some interesting info that the FLO had told him that my FLD (N Yorkshire) should have notified ?Moray? about my intended trip and not Me or the guy at Lossie. I think thats complete hoop, if the FLD had to notify another FLD whenever a rifle went out of their patch then this would max out the system...? I know that FLDs go slightly autonomous on the interpritation of HO guidelines but has anyone else heard of such rubbish? If this was true, it would mean i was breaking the law about 2x a month if not more!

    Leading on from this, i checked with the hotel to confirm that they have had sporting guests in the past and have held shotguns and firearms for them. The answer was yes, so i asked what storage facilities they had, its a locked safe (where the dosh is kept) but i cannot have sole access to this safe while my rifle is stored due to the cash inside it.

    When i go away to my patch in scotland in self catering accomodation, im with the rifle pretty much all the time ie its in the bedroom at night, in the car when i go stalking (obviously) but left with the choice of going to the local pub or shops, surely being locked out of sight in your room with the bolt removed is reasonable? Is it still reasonable if theres more than one key to your room ie a cleaner....?

    Or is it better to put it in the car..? I thought not because you have no reason to have it in your car and a car is probably easier to break into or steal than get inside a hotel/B&B and take it from there..

    If your going away for a week and staying in a hotel with NO HOME OFFICE APPROVED storage and working during the day, what would you do?

    Where i intend going stalking doesnt have any approved storage either..
    Last edited by flyingfisherman; 24-02-2012 at 11:38.

  2. #2
    chain it to a radiator,
    and take the bolt out, not much else you can do,
    as to the flo, why would you need to tell him you are in his area?

  3. #3
    bobt, i know, its stupid. after talking to NYFLD i intend speaking to this FLO in Moray to clarify things. The chaining to a radiator is reasonable but what is reasonable in the eyes of you and i may not be in the eyes of some off-piste FLO. Im now slightly apprehencious because im 'on radar'. Last thing i want is a rozzer knocking at my door up there..

  4. #4
    I have a Napier slip that locks through the trigger guard inside a slip and you can attach a cable lock. I have one that takes rifles and a separate one for shotguns. I would often leave the body of the rifle/shotgun secured to the car and take the bolt, ammo and forestock from the shotgun with me. I put them all in a cartridge bag to keep things together.

    I would not hand over any of my firearms for storage to anyone who wasn't an RFD. I appreciate the safe may be more secure than your room or car, but you are breaking the law handing them over, and they are breaking the law having access to firearms without a suitable certificate.

    I wonder if your biggest mistake was saying anything!

    Section 161 of the Highways Act 1980 (England & Wales) makes it an offence to discharge a firearm within 50 ft of the centre of a highway with vehicular rights without lawful authority or excuse, if as a result a user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered.

  5. #5
    Apache i agree with you and have had the same thoughts, thing is i took my rifle through kinloss last year with no problems at all, so assumed lossie would be the same. I had to tell the base that i was doing so as if i hadnt it could cost me my job. At the end of the day, if it all gets too difficult, i will borrow a rifle but its just not the same!

    So.. what is it they say about assumptions!!

  6. #6

    All you have to do is comply with condition 4 of your certificate. Nobody can criticise you if you take reasonable steps over security.



  7. #7
    Its a strange one this people take stalking in different areas all the time, nobody knows where you are staying Or what the security is, but here's the rub someone coming into the UK on a visitors permit must state where he will stay and the security has to be approved by the police prior to his arrival, if for any reason that accommodation becomes unavailable he or his sponsor must notify the police of change of plans, the police will only accept if the alternative address has been previously approved, or sufficient time has been allowed for the police to check the security of the new address which can take several weeks the visitor arriving in this country to find his Hotel has
    cocked up has a serious problem, they are not allowed the luxury of chaining it in a bedroom.

    In reality why should there be a difference between a UK citizen and a European visitor.

  8. #8
    Account Suspended
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Bonnie Scotland
    Quote Originally Posted by bogtrotter View Post
    In reality why should there be a difference between a UK citizen and a European visitor.
    Just in case Johnny foreigner turns out to be a bally Bolshevik. Can't have them running around Blighty unfettered. Crikey!

    Joking aside, that's exactly where the reasoning came from.

  9. #9
    In my understanding how most things involved with the Police you are absolutely fine to use you best judgement to ensure a reasonable effort was made to secure your firearm....

    ....but if it should go missing be prepared to have your licence shredded as a minimum.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamus View Post
    Just in case Johnny foreigner turns out to be a bally Bolshevik. Can't have them running around Blighty unfettered. Crikey!

    Joking aside, that's exactly where the reasoning came from.
    Aye that may be but the point is Johnny foreigner has already been sponsored by a UK citizen who has answered questions about the visitor and vouched for him the sponsor is responsible for anything that the visitor does while he is in the UK Its not essential for the sponsor to be a FAC holder but more often than not they are, just watch how quickly your FAC disappears if the person you have sponsored does something stupid.

    I have been sponsoring clients for years and know how careful you must be, had an instance a couple of years ago with a client who made a couple of bookings one for the month of May one for August so applied for a visitors permit to cover both periods, he arrived in May and everything went according to plan he left with me expecting to see him again in August, imagine me surprise in June when I am notified he has been interviewed on a different estate arriving in the country on the strength of the visitors permit I had applied for, now if he had been with me
    stalking on the same ground it would not have been a problem as the permit was valid from his first visit in May to the end of his visit in August, the problem as far as the police were concerned, [A ]he was not stalking where the permit said and [B] not staying where he was supposed to be.

    I was told in no uncertain terms that if it ever was to happen again there would be serious consequences

    Bearing in mind that I had no idea he was even in the UK, OK no doubt I made a mistake and should have made

    separate applications for each visit, however I have many clients who come many times a year some as many as six or seven visits and had never had this problem its easier to apply for a permit to cover all there visits and costs them less.
    However goes to show you should take nothing on trust.
    Last edited by bogtrotter; 24-02-2012 at 16:39.

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