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Thread: bedding, etc. equipment

  1. #1

    bedding, etc. equipment

    Hey,

    where is the best place to buy a pillar bedding and glass bedding materials or kit, along with a new forend, grip cap and recoil pad..stock finish, 600 grit grinding paste, checkering tools, etc.?

    I'm struggling to find any stores around that properly have what I need, Midway is very expensive and half of their stock is on backorder..

    any proper British stores around?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by PKL View Post
    Hey,

    where is the best place to buy a pillar bedding and glass bedding materials or kit, along with a new forend, grip cap and recoil pad..stock finish, 600 grit grinding paste, checkering tools, etc.?

    I'm struggling to find any stores around that properly have what I need, Midway is very expensive and half of their stock is on backorder..

    any proper British stores around?
    Please don't tell me you going to pillar bed that ZKK?

    OH dear should I tell you?

    Norman Clark of Rugby will have it all in stock I would guess but of course this weekend he will be set up at Newark. Possibly Riflecraft as I believe they favour this route. In fact it seems that's all they do.

    Have you thought of contacting Redmist or EDI off the forums both do bedding and EDI makes synthetic stocks.

    If you feel like really having your wallet lightened you could try PRS up your way.

    I'll wager if I wandered over to Forest Lodge they would have some Accraglass tucked away somewhere Pillars could be knocked up on the lathe at a push.

    Hopefully you should have received a padded envalope this morning.

    Edit:-
    grinding paste??? A proper Motor factors should be able to supple valve grinding paste which came in a tin with coarse one end and fine the other. Have you thought of lapping paste? A decent engineering supplies should be able to supply it.


    As Norman does do custom rifle builds he should be able to supply grip caps. However may i suggest you buy a slab or a piece of Buffalo Horn and make your own. The same Horn should if you buy carefully provide a piece big enough to make a Horn tip. If not wood turning suppliers can.will provide rare and fancy woods suitable for both cap and tip. Sharp files and even a junior hack saw can be used to cut excess material away and shape ready for sanding and finishing. Check e-bay for pads there is shop in Surrey that has an e-bay shop I seem to recall which stocks pads. I brought some sling swivels off him some time back. Or again Speak to Norman Clark. If you like the BSA type you could try Kinbbs at the Country Store. Chequering tools probably best ordered direct from the US.. or again the dreaded e-bay.
    Last edited by Brithunter; 25-02-2012 at 09:14.

  3. #3
    Thanks for taking the time for the long reply, it is sincerely appreciated and I look forward to sourcing the right materials.

    Pillar bedding - yes I know a bit of a controversial subject for classic rifles such as the ZKK...however, my concern is that the barrel clearance in the barrel channel is so fine that any play or pressure from a bipod will potentially make them touch, and I don't want a big gaudy looking gap that fully floated barrels often have,,hence I thought the pillars might provide the last sturdy bit needed. flame blueing the screws should help make them look decent..but to be honest, nothings been decided fully yet, so may well never happen (pillars that is)..which I'm sure will please you ;-) as you know, in order to get this one to group properly I did need to create a narrow clearing (float). originally it was of course not floating, but it had been messed with and re-installing proper shims at the right height and place was going to be my last resort due to work involved, so fortunately that narrow clearing worked out ok,,but it did leave it more unsupported towards the front end, putting stress on the receiver and action screws of course, which they may never have been originally designed for.

    cheers,

    P

  4. #4
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    Is Pillar bedding a flawed concept.

    Do we want to seat our action firmly and with the right pressure into the right parts of the stock (as a proper bedding job will do) or do we want to attach the action firmly to two relatively skinny pillars?

    Can someone please explain to me any proven benefits of Pillar Bedding?

    I've read lots of blurb on the how to, but never see any good reason explained on why to.

  5. #5
    Distinguished Member Ronin's Avatar
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    All the bits you ned are available from Brownells in the States.

    Thats where I buy my "base" items from.

    Pillars - I make myself out of either stainless or ally depending on how much room I have to play with in the stock.

    Bedding compound - I only use Devcon, I only ever use Devcon.


    A proper bedding job will relieve the action of any stress imparted when the action screws are torqued, it will also prevent the action / stock "movement" under humidity changes and enable you to drop the barrelled action out of the stock and replace for cleaning without any zero shift.

    There is alot of info on line, do not consider bedding a rifle without using pillars - skim bedding isnt worth bothering with...


    Ive seen (first hand) a rifle tested before and after bedding - Parker Hale 30-06, shot no better than 2-3 inches at 100 before it was altered.


    After bedding and relieveing the barrel channel of the pressure nodule, it shot sub 1".


    Just on the pressure bed subject, I altered a Rem 700 last week, it ws fitted with an aftermarket stock (Hogue) with factory pillars and a nodule in the forend barrel channel.

    Before alteration it shot 2.5" at 100 mtrs with factory ammo.

    After removing the nodule and opening the barrel channel to alow 1/8" clearance it shot sub 1".


    Sometimes minor changes transform otherwise mediochre guns.
    Last edited by Ronin; 25-02-2012 at 18:01.

  6. #6
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    My stalking rifles are "glass" bedded and shoot very nicely thank you. None of them are pillar bedded.

  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Ronin's Avatar
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    Bed a plastic, laminate or wooden stock without pillars and your wasting your time and money.


    The torque of the action screws (assuming they are tightened correctly to circa 45 - 60 inch lbs) will cause crush and movement will take place.

    Pillars eradicate the crush.



    Edi's stocks (by the way) do not need pillars, because they are constructed with materiels specifically designed to stop this effect.

  8. #8
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    I hope Muir will come along and explain away my problem with Pillar Bedding.

    A straight forward bedding job (whether using Devcon or any other proprietary product) ensures even contact and correct pressure between the action (especially the recoil lug, chamber, barrel root and action tail) and the stock... With the object in mind of alleviating (or at least minimising) any warping of the action when you torque down those retaining bolts and therefore, you hope, you will have no (or minimal) weird and/or randomly variable stress induced effects on the point of impact, from shot to shot or in diffferent climatic conditions... and more consistent performance, at least from the rifle, is the desired and oft acheived outcome Yes/No?

    If you include a barrel float job, or at least chamber and barrel root support, but no other barrel to forend contact, the thinking is that you will also avoid the stock fore end warp (i.e. warp that results in wood swelling differentially due to moisture, or the absence thereof) which can cause the wood to bend slightly, in any direction and thus deflect your barrel. So, potentially upsetting your point of impact in different climatic conditions. Again a hoped for and sometimes acheived outcome.

    I believe these are the accepted theories and I grasp them, so far. No problem.

    However, I am struggling slightly to articulate my problem in grasping the theories behind "Pillar Bedding!. So, I will try an analogy.

    Vehicle wheel rims are (generally) held on by nuts and wheel studs, or bolts, which "clamp" the rim of the removable wheel to the hub unit on the vehicle. With me so far?

    Now imagine what would happen if someone sleeved the studs, or bolts, (ie. "Pillared" them) such that when they were tight they no longer quite "clamped" the wheel onto the car but relied on the attachment of those sleeves to the wheels in order to keep everything in place... Not so good I think.

    So, Why is not "clamping" the stock between floor plate and action, with the action retaining bolts, when using Pillars any different to my analogy of the vehicle wheel? .... and... if you accept my analogy ...

    How can this be good? .... because this is exactly where my own misgivings lie regarding Pillar Bedding, hence my first remarks above.

    Advice/education required into the error of my thinking... Please?

    p.s. Crush is only bad if it results in warpage and you eradicate that with a proper bed.
    Last edited by Tamus; 25-02-2012 at 19:15. Reason: added p.s.

  9. #9
    Distinguished Member Ronin's Avatar
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    That is the problem.

    With pillars, you tighten the stock bolts to the torque required and they remain tight, no matter what the climatic change.

    Without pillars, - even with bedding compound, tighten the stock bolts to a set torque, then use the rifle in damp cold conditions, use the same rifle in sunny hot conditions and the action will have moved in the stock as the wood has absorbed water (expanding and contracting - to a degree) ultimately affecting the acrtion bolt torque.

    Also, without pillars, no matter how thick the bedding compound undeneath the action base, there is always the substrate of timber, which WILL crush over time.

    Pillars will not.


    Bedding without using pillars, is to quote another gunsmith, "as much use as tits on a boar"


    I personally agree, I never do one, without the other.

  10. #10
    Hmmm I wonder why I can detect no crush in the stock bedding area of my Rigby Mannlicher or my DWM M93 Mauser both of which are not bedded with any compound just into the walnut stock as they were done so some 100+ years ago?

    Perhaps this is a modern problem?

    As Redmist may recall there has been some crush in the stock on my P-H 1200C as we discussed it via PM at quite some length butt hat is a "Modern" rifle as such so probably has a kiln dried stock.

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