.223 Overall length question

Rotwild

Well-Known Member
Hello chaps

I have just brought a new Tkkia T3 in 223 calibre and I have made up a dummy bullet measured at an overall length of .020" back from the lands but the bullet does not fit in the magazine due to being too long, is this normal for factory rifles and do I just have an overall length bullet that the magazine allows.

Garry
 
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What bullets are you using ? i have a tikka 223...i handload 50gn upto 64gns in mine..have used 75gn Amax in past and these were to long for mag so had to hand load.
 
I'm not sure that there's any alternative to deeper seating if the internal magazine length is too short.:?:

For what it's worth, this is restricted to 2.40" on the blocked .222/.223/.22-250 magazines in the M595 series, and the T3 magazines will probably be the same. The maximum cartridge OAL in my books is 2.26" for the .223 and 2.35" for the .22-250 so you should have a bit more room to seat out the .223.

The .22CF calibre barrels in Tikka's are deep-throated. I sometimes use a .243 magazine in my .22-250 to get round this, but that isn't an option with the .223 of course. The polymer-tipped designs make the problem worse, but standard softpoints can be seated out to get closer to the lands.... if that suits your rifle.
 
I'm not sure that there's any alternative to deeper seating if the internal magazine length is too short.:?:

For what it's worth, this is restricted to 2.40" on the blocked .222/.223/.22-250 magazines in the M595 series, and the T3 magazines will probably be the same. The maximum cartridge OAL in my books is 2.26" for the .223 and 2.35" for the .22-250 so you should have a bit more room to seat out the .223.

The .22CF calibre barrels in Tikka's are deep-throated. I sometimes use a .243 magazine in my .22-250 to get round this, but that isn't an option with the .223 of course. The polymer-tipped designs make the problem worse, but standard softpoints can be seated out to get closer to the lands.... if that suits your rifle.
Thank you for your advice, I will see what it groups like to the magazine maximum length, but l'v seen some aftermarket trigger guards and magazines but way too expensive!

Garry
 
Have you tried loading to book length and seeing how they shoot first?

In the past I have spent weeks playing with OAL only to find that the best groups were right near the book starting point.
 
I was given the following information tha might help.
"My .223 is also the 20" 1-8 twist. I use a thread on silencer on the muzzle and the rifle shoots great. Every load I try shoots better with the silencer mounted. The only thing to pay attention to is that the magazine will only allow a maximum cartridge length of about 2.290". Most hand loads with heavier bullets are longer than that when seated close to the rifling. I use the Hornady over all length tool to find the distance to the rifling and then seat the bullets about .015-.020 behind the rifling for best performance with Sierra BTHP and Hornady Amax. The max length handloads need to be single loaded. The Sierra BTHP can be seated shorter and will tolerate the bullet jump and work through the magazine.

This is what I use as an aid to single shot loading, it just pops in and pops out as needed.
http://www.originalbobsled.com/BoltGunSleds.aspx


Hope this might help

 
I was given the following information tha might help.
"My .223 is also the 20" 1-8 twist. I use a thread on silencer on the muzzle and the rifle shoots great. Every load I try shoots better with the silencer mounted. The only thing to pay attention to is that the magazine will only allow a maximum cartridge length of about 2.290". Most hand loads with heavier bullets are longer than that when seated close to the rifling. I use the Hornady over all length tool to find the distance to the rifling and then seat the bullets about .015-.020 behind the rifling for best performance with Sierra BTHP and Hornady Amax. The max length handloads need to be single loaded. The Sierra BTHP can be seated shorter and will tolerate the bullet jump and work through the magazine.

This is what I use as an aid to single shot loading, it just pops in and pops out as needed.
http://www.originalbobsled.com/BoltGunSleds.aspx


Hope this might help

Thank you for your advice and yes it helps,
Was lying in bed last night and it just dawned on me! Why don't I make up to loads one at the books overall length and the second load .020 from the lands for comparison which will answer my question, regarding the single shot loading aid is a very good idea and I have just e-mailed the company to see if they will supply me due to living in the UK also primarily the rifle will only be used for Fox shooting and a high percentage of shots don't need a follow-up so the single shot aid will not be a problem!

Kindest regards
Garry
 
Why don't you predicate your load development based on the magazine length and worry about single shot conversions and alternative magazines when all else fails??? What makes you think that there isn't superlative loading for your rifle at magazine length? Ballistically speaking, there is far more benefit from uniform neck tension on a bullet -technically referred to as "pull weight"- than there is loading to X-thousandths of an inch from the lands.

I am currently working loads for 22 Hornet, .222, 6.5x55, 308, 7.5x55 and 9.3x57. All will currently shoot sub MOA and none of them are seated longer than magazine length. My 6.5 loads are my most current project and I paid no attention to where the lands lay in relation to my OAL. The rounds I have made up with this 120 grain bullet function flawlessly through the magazine and shoot in the .3 to.5 MOA class. ~Muir
 
Do as Muir says load to mag length i have x2 tikkas in 223 one is customised other is standard 20inch 1/8 barrel..ive used upto 69gn BTHP and all were mag length ive used the 75Amax but i got sick of single feeding them..but as you use 55gn they WILL fit to mag no probs ive also used them in past..you will not need to buy any BOB slay add on for mags.

Mick
 
Garry S, i have a T3 varmit with 1:8 twist bbl in .223. I shoot the nosler 55 gn BT over ww 748 and the 69 gn SMK with Rl-15. Load them both to mag length and they will shoot better than you can is my guess.
 
Why don't you predicate your load development based on the magazine length and worry about single shot conversions and alternative magazines when all else fails??? What makes you think that there isn't superlative loading for your rifle at magazine length? Ballistically speaking, there is far more benefit from uniform neck tension on a bullet -technically referred to as "pull weight"- than there is loading to X-thousandths of an inch from the lands.

I am currently working loads for 22 Hornet, .222, 6.5x55, 308, 7.5x55 and 9.3x57. All will currently shoot sub MOA and none of them are seated longer than magazine length. My 6.5 loads are my most current project and I paid no attention to where the lands lay in relation to my OAL. The rounds I have made up with this 120 grain bullet function flawlessly through the magazine and shoot in the .3 to.5 MOA class. ~Muir

Cheers guys for your input, I think you are right by putting too much emphasis on the overall length and so I'll use the magazine as the overall length but keep it consistent,

Muir you speak about uniform neck tension! Is this what I get from the sizing die or is it a whole new can of worms I'm opening, not looking for a bench rest accuracy but just looking to get the most out of the equipment I have!

Garry
 
After reading all this so far, the thought has occurred to me that a T3 in .223 isn't the best choice for the tactical/technical type of shooter.

I'm thinking of those who are looking for long range performance in this calibre (>250 yds.) and go for the HB T3 Varmint/Super Varmint in fast-twist barrels with 69-grain to 90 grain Match King or A-Max bullets. Why you'd want to do this for Fox/Muntjac/CWD shooting I don't fully understand.

The T3 rifle is configured to 'match' standard' but the magazine hasn't been adapted to this purpose. It's still blocked to 'sporting' overall length. The heavier and longer the bullet chosen, then the deeper the seating depth needed to get it to fit within the confines of the magazine.

You can seat out these long bullets to reach the 'lands', and single-load them rather than feed a supply through the shortened magazine.

You can shoot them at a reasonable rate by dropping them into a standard top- loading action such as the Sako 75 or the Tikka M595. But this is a lot more difficult with a Tikka M590 or Tikka T3. These have a ported loading aperture, so you have to wiggle them in sideways through the slot like posting a letter. This is even harder to do with frozen fingers, or wearing any kind of gloves.

You can use a dummy follower or floorplate such as the 'Bob-Sleigh' to adapt the magazine, but you still have a singe-shot action and have to manoeuvre the rounds in through the port.
So I can't see what the benefits of all this hassle is.:doh:
 
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