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Thread: Mentoring

  1. #1

    Mentoring

    A friend of mine has asked if I would mentor him as his FAO has asked for this as a requirement. Could anyone tell me who qualifies as a mentor?
    Tusker

  2. #2
    Tusker, I asked this question in an e-mail to the licensing manager... this was the reply;

    Reason for "Accompanied Condition" when deer stalking.
    The six species of deer found in this country form an important and valued element of our flora and fauna. They are all, however, thriving and surveys conducted by various societies have shown them to be increasing in both numbers and geographic spread. In order to ensure the welfare of deer, protecting them from starvation due to overgrazing, and from road traffic accidents, it is important that they are managed.
    It is equally important to protect other creatures sharing their habitat from the results of overgrazing, as well as to prevent the deer from causing unacceptable damage to crops and trees. Usually the management of deer means that they have to be 'culled' and it is important that the cull be carried out efficiently and humanely, by people who understand exactly what they are doing.
    The law requires that any business or recreational activity is carried out safely in all respects: deer stalking is no exception, and the deer stalker has a legal responsibility to ensure their actions pose the minimum risk to anyone.
    The laws concerning deer stalking are many and complex for a novice and having the correct permissions and the correct calibre of rifle on your Firearms Certificate is just the beginning.
    To minimise the risk to public safety, Chief officers of police are empowered to impose conditions on firearms certificates and the condition applied in the case of a novice deerstalker that he must beaccompanied by an experienced deerstalker is one such condition.
    This condition is only temporary and relies on the novice gaining experience by accompanying an experienced deerstalker and gaining the confidence and experience of using his own personal rifle and learning new techniques over a period of time.
    Once his mentor is satisfied that he has gained the necessary knowledge and is competent enough to go deer stalking without supervision he can put this in writing and inform the licensing authority that in his opinion the condition can safely be removed from the firearm certificate.
    The Deer Management Qualification deer stalking level 1 certificate assesses the under-pinning technical knowledge and marksmanship skill expected of an unsupervised deerstalker and is a good starting point for novice deerstalkers to begin their training.

    An example of an experienced deerstalker is a person who has gained his deer stalking experience over a number of years and does not have any land restrictions on his deer stalking condition. Preferably a person who has completed the Deer Management Qualification deer stalking level 1 and 2 certificates.
    "It's halfway down the hill, directly below that tree next to a rock that looks like a bell-end"

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  3. #3
    You should in the first instance ask this F.E.O. what his parameters are,as he is demanding this conditioning, (as it's not a legal requirement, you can then argue the in & outs with him), maybe with the help of a shooting organisation?
    (The Unspeakable In Pursuit Of The Uneatable.) " If I can help, I will help!." Former S.A.C.S. member!

  4. #4
    See i think it a reasonable request i just cannot for the life of me see why it only relates to deer. I think any one applying for a FAC should under go proper shooting test and make sure they understand the basics.

  5. #5
    Hi Tusker, an FAC authority may place a restriction on the holder that states an "experienced" stalker must accompany them. Some even ask for a named stalker to be put on the FAC, that is very restrictive and means that your friend can only go stalking with the named stalker on the FAC and NO ONE else, unless he gets sends in a variation to go somewhere else. It is also restrictive in the sense that no matter how good a friend the novise is, the experienced stalker, not surprisingly, may often want to go off on his own and not be bothered by accompanying someone on a regular basis.
    The word "Accompany" in firearms law means within sight and sound ie. can't be left in a high seat on their own! It may be worth your friend contacting the FAC authorities to request that the named stalker restriction be changed and at worst accept "experienced". Still restrictive, and an idea may be to contact whatever organisation he is a member of to see if they can help with the restrictions that are being suggested.
    Best regards.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Si View Post
    Tusker, I asked this question in an e-mail to the licensing manager... this was the reply;

    Reason for "Accompanied Condition" when deer stalking.
    The six species of deer found in this country form an important and valued element of our flora and fauna. They are all, however, thriving and surveys conducted by various societies have shown them to be increasing in both numbers and geographic spread. In order to ensure the welfare of deer, protecting them from starvation due to overgrazing, and from road traffic accidents, it is important that they are managed.
    It is equally important to protect other creatures sharing their habitat from the results of overgrazing, as well as to prevent the deer from causing unacceptable damage to crops and trees. Usually the management of deer means that they have to be 'culled' and it is important that the cull be carried out efficiently and humanely, by people who understand exactly what they are doing.
    The law requires that any business or recreational activity is carried out safely in all respects: deer stalking is no exception, and the deer stalker has a legal responsibility to ensure their actions pose the minimum risk to anyone.
    The laws concerning deer stalking are many and complex for a novice and having the correct permissions and the correct calibre of rifle on your Firearms Certificate is just the beginning.
    To minimise the risk to public safety, Chief officers of police are empowered to impose conditions on firearms certificates and the condition applied in the case of a novice deerstalker that he must beaccompanied by an experienced deerstalker is one such condition.
    This condition is only temporary and relies on the novice gaining experience by accompanying an experienced deerstalker and gaining the confidence and experience of using his own personal rifle and learning new techniques over a period of time.
    Once his mentor is satisfied that he has gained the necessary knowledge and is competent enough to go deer stalking without supervision he can put this in writing and inform the licensing authority that in his opinion the condition can safely be removed from the firearm certificate.
    The Deer Management Qualification deer stalking level 1 certificate assesses the under-pinning technical knowledge and marksmanship skill expected of an unsupervised deerstalker and is a good starting point for novice deerstalkers to begin their training.

    An example of an experienced deerstalker is a person who has gained his deer stalking experience over a number of years and does not have any land restrictions on his deer stalking condition. Preferably a person who has completed the Deer Management Qualification deer stalking level 1 and 2 certificates.
    Rather stretching the law beyond HO guidlines and the letter of the Firearms Act. IMO the discretionary powers granted to Chiefs of Police surely don't extend to surplanting the role of Parliament, whatever they might like to think. atb Tim

  7. #7
    I know several people that are holding FAC's that should really not have them yet and a mentoring or DSC1 at least should be a requirement. I have been called at all hours asking if what they are looking at is in season!! I have been asked to find wounded deer that have been hit by an un-zeroed rifle and i have seen eyes being shot at and they were not foxes but roe... I have been asked to mentor two young lads but is there really any substitute for guidance and experience? I also (have heard of) a fella with 2,000 of kit and he has never chambered a round even to zero it in two years as he really doesn't have any land and he was never asked to have a mentor so when is it legally required?

  8. #8
    Agree with Roestalker. I was recently a referee for a friends FAC, and his FEO called me for the normal chat, and stating that he was going to give him the "accompanied" condition, and make me the named person to do this.

    I refused, stating it was too restrictive for my friend, and unreasonable to me, on both my time, and financially. However, I did say that if the MET were prepared to pay for all the stalking I'd have to do with him, I'd accept it.

    He changed it to anyone with "stalking" on their license !


    Mark.

  9. #9
    i had it with my deer and fox rifles with a named mentor, my fac came with him on it and it was never even spoken about with myself and i had my dsc1. but was just pleased too have my fac and it dint bother me much.
    the 1st time i wanted to go with someone else i just sent my fac back with a covering letter signed by mentor and had it removed. stav
    if your going too be dumb you have too be tough

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by 6pointer View Post
    See i think it a reasonable request i just cannot for the life of me see why it only relates to deer. I think any one applying for a FAC should under go proper shooting test and make sure they understand the basics.
    +1

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