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Thread: Crossing boundaries

  1. #1

    Crossing boundaries

    Following on from some comments made on the 'Bavarians are great' thread

    Tahr mentioned this in a response to my post

    "We are legally able to cross a boundary when tracking a woundered deer in Scotland so no problem there."

    why is it that you can do this in Scotland and not in England and Wales ?
    what is so different and why? s

  2. #2

    Like in a lot of things, the law in Scotland is different to the England and Wales...I'm not sure there is a "reason" as such, its just the way the Scots framed their Law when it was being written.

    There are a couple of books on Law as it relates to Deer and/or the country side and its very worth while having one on your bookshelf...I have "Deer: Law and Liability" but parts of it are now probably out of date.



    (PS If anybody can recommend a similar book that is written for the lay-person and reasonably up to date, I'd be very interested in getting it..)

  3. #3
    SD Regular willie_gunn's Avatar
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    Your email got me thinking - I checked the Swan Hill website and there is a new edition of Deer Law and Liabilities! See:

    Amazon still only has the first edition, so it might be a while before it's generally available.


  4. #4
    Hi Pete
    thanks for that
    but maybe it is just my ignorance, but as to when was this law written and why was it written in such a way
    just it seems to me with stalking becoming such a popular sport now and the need for a dog for deer work is on the up , stalkers and organisations spouting on about excess volume of deer that need to be culled
    surely lots of deer are being shot at and wounded , that can never be retrieved or even bothered to be looked for ,just so some one can put the wounded beast or beasts of their misery and we talk about deer welfare , can't realy see who benefits here on the deer welfare side of things

    why has no-one looked into trying to change the laws, or if some one has what was the outcome how did you fair?
    surely there must be more to this

  5. #5

    I seem to recall that either BASC or BDS recently did a survey of stalker-members re wounding and recovery rates, from which they compiled a report of the subject.

    "surely lots of deer are being shot at and wounded , that can never be retrieved or even bothered to be looked for .."

    Personally, I have seen no evidence of that. Mishaps happen, but it certainly seems to be in a minority of cases, and where a mishap does occur a high percentage seem to get sorted, especially if a dog is on hand.

    I would think that the access issue you mention is more likely to be a problem when dealing with RTA's as there is no way any access arrangements can be made in advance, unlike with a stalker who can at least discuss the issue with the property owners adjacent to his ground.



  6. #6
    there must be loads of mishaps that hav happened
    but who in thier right mind would ever own up, not sure i would
    the reason i got a dog was because i was taking out more and more stalkers and as a result getting more wounded than i felt comfortable with
    losing one deer a year might be exceptable to most , but losing 1 deer a year because it crossed a boundary fence , well that is something different
    as you hav no-way of following it up if you can't contact the land owner/lease holder at the time
    yes i know you can make prior arrangements, but that is not always the case or even possible
    it might just be over the fence in full view and lay down as a result of a gut shot,
    yes common sense might say give it another bullet ,but the law say's lose your ticket and possible prison sentence if you get caught
    all that.......what over a deer !!!
    why not just leave it and not worry as you can go out the next day and shoot another anyway
    might be a little cynical here , maybe it's time for some changes
    as for RTA's not sure i would even consider doing any now ,not worth the time and effort if once you get there and the poor little beggar has crawled off the verge onto some-one else's property
    not sure i would want to be done for armed tresspass by the same force that initially called you out
    wonder if my insurances covered me for that or if even BASC would take up the case

  7. #7
    Note ref Scotland

    Yes you can cross boundries in Scotland without the owners permission. you can even have your firearm with you but it must be unloaded and safe(ie moving from one forestry block to another) You cant go onto the property with a loaded firearm even to dispatch a wounded animal without the owners permission. You could possible dispatch it with a knife, heavy rock or whatever. Remember however you cannot retrieve the beast as it belongs to the landowner on who's property it died unless you have a prior agreement. Knife laws get a little tricky.


  8. #8
    Remember as well, the Deer Act (Scotland) only says, that for the various exceptions - a person shall 'not be guilty of an offence under THIS act'. Not the person shall not be guilty of an offence.

    So, in theory you could still be open to armed tresspass charges and breaches of other Acts like the firearms act.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkH
    Note ref Scotland

    You cant go onto the property with a loaded firearm even to dispatch a wounded animal without the owners permission.
    Sorry Mark you are wrong, you can go onto land were you other wise have no authority to be with a loaded firearm and you can dispatch the deer with that firearm and in doing so you have not committed any offence, there is no trespassing laws in Scotland. You are quite right that if you do cross a boundary to dispatch a deer you can not remove it with out the land owner permission.

    Under section 25 of the Deer act of Scotland 1996 if you carry out an act to minimise the suffering of a deer which contravenes any other offence you are not guilty of breaking any law. In other words deer welfare always takes precedence over any statue laid down.

    Here are a couple of examples: - You see a red hind on your side of the boundary fence and its dependant calf is on your neighbours, you shoot the calf over the boundary and then the mother on your land, no offence is committed.

    You come on a RTC the deer has run into a home owners back garden, you get you 17hmr go into there back garden and head shoot it at 5 yrds. No offence is committed.

    Best rgds


  10. #10

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