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Thread: Ol' School - Big Bores!

  1. #1

    Cool Ol' School - Big Bores!

    Hello my friends from the UK,

    Recently a friend of mine asked me to gather technical info and values on a couple 'circa 1900' black powder centre fire rifles. These are real nifty. I love 'em both.

    First is a Spandau 71/84 (11mm) Mauser. A true testament to old school German engineering.
    The second on is a Remington Rolling Block #1 1/2 Sporter...likely a .43 Spanish calibre. Needs to have a chamber casting done to confirm calibre.

    Just thought i'd share a few pics for your enjoyment. They have been 'reworked' (many moons ago) so they are not worth what i thought they would be to a collector, but they are completely functional and certainly fun to play with . Very admirable!

    Are you folks in the UK permitted to hunt with old goodies like these?? just curious.

    Here's a few pics of each:










    And now the Rolling Block







    Enjoy

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by rsako View Post
    Hello my friends from the UK,

    Recently a friend of mine asked me to gather technical info and values on a couple 'circa 1900' black powder centre fire rifles. These are real nifty. I love 'em both.

    First is a Spandau 71/84 (11mm) Mauser. A true testament to old school German engineering.
    The second on is a Remington Rolling Block #1 1/2 Sporter...likely a .43 Spanish calibre. Needs to have a chamber casting done to confirm calibre.

    Just thought i'd share a few pics for your enjoyment. They have been 'reworked' (many moons ago) so they are not worth what i thought they would be to a collector, but they are completely functional and certainly fun to play with . Very admirable!

    Are you folks in the UK permitted to hunt with old goodies like these?? just curious.

    Here's a few pics of each:










    And now the Rolling Block







    Enjoy
    RSAKO: I have both rifles. My Spandau 71/84 is also dated 1888 and it is an all original rifle, unaltered and most likely unfired. It ran me $450 two years back. The one in the pic has been reblued and the wood refinished but that wouldn't stop it from being a fine shooter. I also have a badly executed "sporter" 71/84 that was shortened about 6 inches. I recently had this gun out to see what could be done to make it a little more appealing. The 11mm Mauser (or "43 Mauser" as the old Canadian Dominion Ammo Co called it) is a superbly accurate round. RCBS still makes a bullet mold for it that casts .448" diameter, 370 grain bullets. Over a fullish case of H4831 it will shoot with any 45-70 and probably out do it.

    The Rolling Block is a nice rifle. You posted pic of it a while back, didn't you?? I saw one at the last gunshow for $495 US, for what that's worth, but it was un altered. I don't shoot 43 Spanish but its easy enough to get brass and dies for. Oh, i forgot to mention that both cases can be formed from 348 Winchester. The Mauser requires lathe turning the "A" base shape to the rim.~Muir

  3. #3
    Does that Spandau have a tube mag? I visisted this company last weekend and spent an hour in his workshop http://www.prinz-waffen.de/startseite.html?&L=1 , he showed me something similar or possibly the same with a tube mag. Oswald is building new rifles now on that priziple. 222/223 so that SP pointed bullets can be used.
    I also handled an old school german made Elephant gun, 4 bore rifled black powder double...some lump.
    edi

  4. #4
    Both rifles can be owned by anyone here int eh UK as they are antique, off ticket and in an obsolete chambering.

    Shooting them is another matter. To shoot them one must have them on a FAC (Firearms Certificate) same as a .243 Win stalking rifle. One also needs an explosive licence to buy and store the black powder. At the moment this issue is free but I cannot see that remaining the same for too much longer. It will just become another way of dissuading the shooter by adding more costs.

    Hunting with them is an interesting idea but they must still meet the current regulations for bore size and muzzle energy. Bore size is easily met as they are way larger than the minimum but reaching 1700 ft lbs might prove more troublesome. Then to compound the issue there is the problem of bullets designed to expand as the laws puts it. That is a whole can of worms on it's own.

    I believe the easiest way would be to use Hollow Pointed bullets.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ejg View Post
    Does that Spandau have a tube mag?
    edi
    It does have a tube mag. If you look at the pic of the open action you can see the carrier that lifts the cartridge to the bolt face. There is a "selector" on the left side of the receiver that allows you to switch from single shot to a magazine feed. In the second pic from the top you can see it at the rear of the receiver. When I was a kid these rifles were sold from a barrel at one of the local hardware stores. I think the rifle was $12 and original black powder cartridges were a a couple dollars a packet. The Dominion smokeless ammo was $4 a box. I have a box of Dominion 43 Mauser sitting on my bookshelf as I write with the $3.99 tag stil on it.~Muir

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Muir View Post
    It does have a tube mag. If you look at the pic of the open action you can see the carrier that lifts the cartridge to the bolt face. There is a "selector" on the left side of the receiver that allows you to switch from single shot to a magazine feed. In the second pic from the top you can see it at the rear of the receiver. When I was a kid these rifles were sold from a barrel at one of the local hardware stores. I think the rifle was $12 and original black powder cartridges were a a couple dollars a packet. The Dominion smokeless ammo was $4 a box. I have a box of Dominion 43 Mauser sitting on my bookshelf as I write with the $3.99 tag stil on it.~Muir
    great....
    the one I handled left the front lip of the carrier down until the bolt was all the way back, when pulling the bolt back with a little force it would raise the front of the carrier and then have the cartridge in line with the bore ready to be chambered. Should have taken a picture of the stutzen type new rifle the chap was building using this system. Very sleek rifles.
    edi

  7. #7
    More awesome info here! Thanks folks. I find them equally interesting. The Mauser sure has its 'quirky' touches, like bolt removal and centre strap tightening (righty loosy, lefty tighty)!! The Rolling Block is so darn solid! The pics i posted were 'as is' when I received them for evaluation. They cleaned up real nice I'm happy to report. The bore on the Remington is as nice as any i've seen. one swirling patch of pitting about 2-3 inches past the chamber...that won't matter a bit to the bullet i'm sure.

    Sadly..i must return them to the owner this week. I had never played with either of these. It was an honour to handle them. Great history.

    hmmm... if were to pick just one...i'd grab the Rolling Block. It's design is so simple and solid! yet great!

    Muir...I know I posted pics awhile back...certainly on a couple US collectors websites trying to gather tech info and values. Now, if i could only buy that box of 43 Mauser off ya'!
    Give ya 5 bucks? Take a picture of it and post it! Also take a picture of a 43 Mauser round next to a 30.06 say...for comparison sake. When you get a chance.

    Thanks again for all the input everyone.

    Cheers from Canuckland,

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Brithunter View Post
    Both rifles can be owned by anyone here int eh UK as they are antique, off ticket and in an obsolete chambering.

    Shooting them is another matter. To shoot them one must have them on a FAC (Firearms Certificate) same as a .243 Win stalking rifle. One also needs an explosive licence to buy and store the black powder. At the moment this issue is free but I cannot see that remaining the same for too much longer. It will just become another way of dissuading the shooter by adding more costs.

    Hunting with them is an interesting idea but they must still meet the current regulations for bore size and muzzle energy. Bore size is easily met as they are way larger than the minimum but reaching 1700 ft lbs might prove more troublesome. Then to compound the issue there is the problem of bullets designed to expand as the laws puts it. That is a whole can of worms on it's own.

    I believe the easiest way would be to use Hollow Pointed bullets.
    Brit, i certainly don't envy your regulations...wow! but i'd bet either one of these big bores would reach 1700 Ft/lbs. They easily took buffalo back in the day. but "Velocity Squared" is certainly a big part of the Energy equation...that is for sure.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by ejg View Post
    Does that Spandau have a tube mag? I visisted this company last weekend and spent an hour in his workshop http://www.prinz-waffen.de/startseite.html?&L=1 , he showed me something similar or possibly the same with a tube mag. Oswald is building new rifles now on that priziple. 222/223 so that SP pointed bullets can be used.
    I also handled an old school german made Elephant gun, 4 bore rifled black powder double...some lump.
    edi
    ejg, sure wish i could afford one of Mr. Prinz's firearms. They are stunning!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by rsako View Post
    Brit, i certainly don't envy your regulations...wow! but i'd bet either one of these big bores would reach 1700 Ft/lbs. They easily took buffalo back in the day. but "Velocity Squared" is certainly a big part of the Energy equation...that is for sure.

    The regulations really make no sense but then when do laws make any sense.. Not here in the UK at least. Drafted by idiots and enforce by cretins .

    For example when i asked to put my 303's on fr deer there wa sa suckign of teeth and he said:-

    Well I dunno that's a military calibre and way too powerful for use for deer stalking
    So I said oh well never mind I have been offered a nice sporting 7.7mm. To which he answered.

    OOooH I have never heard of one of those.. Yet only minutes earlier he had been checking my ammo and some he counted was about 10 boxes of the Portuguese FNM .303 which is clearly marked on front and sides :-

    .303 British
    7,7x56R
    Norman was not the sharpest tool in the drawer. So on the next variation or renewal I cannot recall which no I out down the 303 for stalking and voila it came back with it conditioned so on the new ticket. As they just put calibres allowed to be used it was up to me to decide which rifle to use for stalking on any occasion unlike here where she decided which rifles were suitable and safe to use and which too dangerous to shoot at all.

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