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Thread: A Trained Deer Dog? Really?

  1. #1

    A Trained Deer Dog? Really?

    At the time of writing I see that 2321 hits have been made on 6pointers site “Poll : Trained deer dog“ and that 82 persons have answered that they have either access to a or a deer dog themselves.
    That is 3.5%. Room for improvement here, I think.
    But what is more interesting is that 32 people answered that they have a “fully trained deer dog”.
    That begs the question: What should a “fully trained deerdog” that might be called in to assist another stalker to help find his wounded deer be able to do?
    In my view he should:
    1 Be able to sit and stay for a minimum of 25 minutes out ofsight of everything and everybody whilst a rifle shot is fired about halfway.
    2 Work out a track of not less than 1000 meters without blood but with diversions like squirrels, rabbits, other deer tracks, car tracks, roads, rivers, impenetrable bushes etc. The track should be not less than 24 hours old.
    3 Stop and show his handler each time he has found something from the deer on the track, be it hair, guts, blood or whatever.
    4 If taken off the lead at the end he should be able to stop the deer by barking so that it can be approached and shot or, if so trained, use a bringsel.
    5 I do not mention PRA Tests, HD tests, size, confirmation, character etc etc. I take these for granted!

    Let me be honest. My old "trained deer dog" cannot do it and the young one cannot do it yet!
    And yours?
    Last edited by barongcw; 12-04-2012 at 17:03.

  2. #2
    Mine won't do verweisen as I haven't taught them but the new one will be taught it.
    Everything else no problem

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  3. #3
    How dogs does it take to get it right ?
    I an fifty something now wonder how many dogs i have left ?
    Its very true what they say, you never stop learning...!!!

    I hope to get another this year, lots to improve on.

  4. #4
    An interesting thread - I have to say that I think it's over-complicating the subject. I agree that is a poor state of affairs that so few people have or have access to a deer dog but by by laying down such criteria this will not help the issue. My own dog has been used to track injured deer, both from rifle and more commonly RTC's. She has done this in varied terrain, weather conditions, over distances from 20 metres to 300 + metres (although never 1000 metres), on freshly hit animals and trails over 24 hours old. She has not always been successful but has been so more times than not. The person who has hit the deer has always been grateful that I have attended and I have always felt I and my dog have done the best we can under the circumstances.

    Looking at your list - my dog would fail on all counts - 'fully trained' is a personal thing, based on the handlers expectations and needs. My dog meets both of these for me and so I would call her fully trained.

    To set down such criteria is more relevant to a working test scenario rather than a practical working dog. I know there are many who do both with their dogs and good luck to them, just don't dismiss as 'untrained' those who meet their handlers needs.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawshill View Post

    Looking at your list - my dog would fail on all counts - 'fully trained' is a personal thing, based on the handlers expectations and needs. My dog meets both of these for me and so I would call her fully trained.

    To set down such criteria is more relevant to a working test scenario rather than a practical working dog. I know there are many who do both with their dogs and good luck to them, just don't dismiss as 'untrained' those who meet their handlers needs.
    By teaching your dog the various points I made he is ready for everything. It is not so much a matter that the dog meets your needs but more that he meets the need of a wounded deer ie that he is able to find a wounded one with confidence.

    It is not rocket science, the Danish Tracking Societ has mainly labradors, not specialised tracking hounds, so I am told. The dogs can do it easily, it is the handler that is the key.
    Last edited by barongcw; 12-04-2012 at 11:42.

  6. #6
    i hit the wrong option in the poll
    jesus baron thats a long list
    mine will be in training shortly

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=cookingfat;358235]How dogs does it take to get it right ?
    QUOTE]

    Only 1.

    And a bit of advice from Kim and Rudi.
    Last edited by barongcw; 12-04-2012 at 15:21.

  8. #8
    WEll said Baron,
    The list looks daunting to anyone contemplating training a dog for deer, but it is no more so, than training a gundog to a high standard.
    To pass the first breed test of the official K B G S, which must be successfully completed before the dog is three years old. your dog on finding the carcase, and after showing you it has found it.
    Must NOT !,
    Show any sign of nervousness ,
    Start to eat, tear off, or tear off and try to bury any part thereof.
    Nor must it leave the carcase.
    Then the dog is made to liedown, 3 mtrs away from the carcase,and stay while you and a Judge go away more than 50mtrs out of sight of the dog. ( two more judges watch the dog from a distance ,eg a highseat,) then after 15min you fire a rifle, The dog must not move or leave it's place, nor show any sign of nervousness to the shot.Then after another 15min of staying , another judge approaches the carcase , The dog must protect the carcase by barking , growling , snarling,in a threatening manor !, but it will fail if it bites or attacks the judge or shows , any sign of nervousness, or moves away from the carcase.Then there is the lead work more sitting and staying with you out of sight the lead work is to simulate stalking through some dense young trees to show the dog works with you not getting tangled so that you can work as a team.. Simple , Tch!
    Regards Widu.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by widu View Post
    WEll said Baron,
    The list looks daunting to anyone contemplating training a dog for deer, but it is no more so, than training a gundog to a high standard.
    To pass the first breed test of the official K B G S, which must be successfully completed before the dog is three years old. your dog on finding the carcase, and after showing you it has found it.
    Must NOT !,
    Show any sign of nervousness ,
    Start to eat, tear off, or tear off and try to bury any part thereof.
    Nor must it leave the carcase.
    Then the dog is made to liedown, 3 mtrs away from the carcase,and stay while you and a Judge go away more than 50mtrs out of sight of the dog. ( two more judges watch the dog from a distance ,eg a highseat,) then after 15min you fire a rifle, The dog must not move or leave it's place, nor show any sign of nervousness to the shot.Then after another 15min of staying , another judge approaches the carcase , The dog must protect the carcase by barking , growling , snarling,in a threatening manor !, but it will fail if it bites or attacks the judge or shows , any sign of nervousness, or moves away from the carcase.Then there is the lead work more sitting and staying with you out of sight the lead work is to simulate stalking through some dense young trees to show the dog works with you not getting tangled so that you can work as a team.. Simple , Tch!
    Regards Widu.
    Interesting.

    You know more about BMH than I do.

    An HS has to pass before 2 years. Are you certain it is 3 years for a BMH? Could not find the details on the KBGS website.

    But I did notice that a BMH can do the Main trial, Hauptprufung, without a lead at all. Is it the same for the pre-trial, vorprufung?

  10. #10
    How many 'fully trained deer dogs' do you estimate are currently being used UK wide then Baron?

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