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Thread: Deer Dogs puppy,s were do we get them

  1. #1

    Deer Dogs puppy,s were do we get them

    It is obvious we like the BMH and the HS etc But were to get one we are not to get them from Germany were some on the site recon the best ones come from .But when we get the next best thing we are slated. Start a tracking club a HS BMH Group and in 10 years time we might get access to German stock by that time its to late we have made do with what we could and like true brits we will continue to muddle on. There are a couple of good dogs in the country that have passed advanced tests but you cant get a line off them its guarded. So what do we do if we want a puppy off great stock.

    ROCK and a HARD PLACE

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by 6pointer View Post
    It is obvious we like the BMH and the HS etc But were to get one we are not to get them from Germany were some on the site recon the best ones come from .But when we get the next best thing we are slated. Start a tracking club a HS BMH Group and in 10 years time we might get access to German stock by that time its to late we have made do with what we could and like true brits we will continue to muddle on. There are a couple of good dogs in the country that have passed advanced tests but you cant get a line off them its guarded. So what do we do if we want a puppy off great stock.

    ROCK and a HARD PLACE
    That's quite a good post!

  3. #3
    It's not just about buying from good stock but more about keeping the quality and ability to the same standard or better that counts from there you can progress in the right direction

  4. #4
    I think Davie what we have to do is prove how serious we are about not only giving these dogs enough work, but taking that work seriously and training them to do it to their full potential whether that potential is needed in the field every day or not.

    Without naming names, folk have no doubt in the past got their hands on some good dogs, and seen it as an opportunity to make a buck. Probably because of the rarity of that breed. And the most common being the BMH is already raising concerns about hips because of ill informed or unscrupulous breeding.

    You personally have seen some breeds ruined because of showing. What was it you said to me recently? 90% of all HWV's in Britain are now known to be pets or show dogs? What a shame for that fantastic working breed...

    I can totally see why the Germans are so guarded of their pure working lines.

    I have admitted in the past that my dog has failings so this is by no way a dig at folk who are rightly proud of what their dog can do, but a video of a dog being posted following a fresh (hot) track up to 300m is not going to convince them that we are taking the capabilities of their breeds seriously as it then appears we think that is all there is to it. That is not a fully trained deer dog. Why not show a video of the dog following an intricate 1000m track 24hrs old and indicating sign along the way? It doesn't matter if its training or for real. It show that we know what is required.

    Starting tests and training days, and having folk like Rudi over to report back is certainly one way of possibly opening doors in the future. It is clear from the currently running threads and passionate responses that there is a following in this country who would like to also see that happen.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by 6pointer View Post
    It is obvious we like the BMH and the HS etc But were to get one we are not to get them from Germany were some on the site recon the best ones come from .But when we get the next best thing we are slated. Start a tracking club a HS BMH Group and in 10 years time we might get access to German stock by that time its to late we have made do with what we could and like true brits we will continue to muddle on. There are a couple of good dogs in the country that have passed advanced tests but you cant get a line off them its guarded. So what do we do if we want a puppy off great stock.

    ROCK and a HARD PLACE
    You hit the nail with the hammer. I have spend a lot of time thinking about that.

    The problem I have with HS is that the KC does not recognise the breed. Only the KC can issue internationally accepted pedigrees. Thus we cannot breed from the pedigreed dogs we have here and get pedigrees for the pups.

    The only solution I can see would be to have the pubs born abroad, have them registered there then bring them back. Expensive and complicated.

    Your only option is to get an HS pup from abroad. Getting them from the VH is almost impossible but there are excellent pups to be had from Hungary. The problem is you have to go and get the pup but at least the quarantaine problem has been made a lot easier.

    For BMH the situation is different. There are some very good dogs in this country. You can breed from them and get a pup with papers. Over time there will be more.

  6. #6
    Getting accepted into the KBGS or VH would be a great honour and priveledge but you would have to prove yourself as being totally serious and willing to travel....quite a lot.
    Handlers and dogs from these societies have to sit tests,if you are lucky enough to be accepted into said societies you then have to stick to stipulations laid down by them,this is where trust comes in and to be frank I can see why German societies don't trust us,ie pups pumped out unscrupulously just to make money
    Breedmasters in said societies if dog and handler have passed said tests may let you breed your dog if you wish a replacement but you can only breed with dogs that the breedmaster picks for you in those societies and the pups will be sold within the societies as well,it's worked for years so why change?
    Closed door!!!!To be truthful as I say I can't blame them either,to many dogs have been ruined by show people and working people out to make a fast buck,why would you want to muck up 200 years of selective breeding to be the best,answer you would not!!!!
    As Baron says there are other ways with perfectly good dogs but we in the uk with these dogs,unless
    educated as handlers will let the dogs down IMO
    Last edited by Wolverine; 13-04-2012 at 00:04.

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  7. #7
    You only have to look in any shooting mag's dogs for sale and see the adverts for Lab X BMH !! makes me sick, what's that about , why would you cross a gun dog with a cold scent hound. This is one reason the Germans are very guarded about letting there specialist hounds come here. Until we take the breeding of working dogs seriously,especialy the scent hounds and then volanterialy be trained then tested to prove we and our dogs are up to a recognised standard,would you take the Brit's serious about their dogs ??. The only way is to start somewhere and these posts are a start, or the first step in the right direction .

  8. #8
    There will be two litters this year by friends of me in Hungaria , all papers are in order even they get an export pedigree .

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by jamross65 View Post
    I think Davie what we have to do is prove how serious we are about not only giving these dogs enough work, but taking that work seriously and training them to do it to their full potential whether that potential is needed in the field every day or not.

    Without naming names, folk have no doubt in the past got their hands on some good dogs, and seen it as an opportunity to make a buck. Probably because of the rarity of that breed. And the most common being the BMH is already raising concerns about hips because of ill informed or unscrupulous breeding.

    You personally have seen some breeds ruined because of showing. What was it you said to me recently? 90% of all HWV's in Britain are now known to be pets or show dogs? What a shame for that fantastic working breed...

    I can totally see why the Germans are so guarded of their pure working lines.

    I have admitted in the past that my dog has failings so this is by no way a dig at folk who are rightly proud of what their dog can do, but a video of a dog being posted following a fresh (hot) track up to 300m is not going to convince them that we are taking the capabilities of their breeds seriously as it then appears we think that is all there is to it. That is not a fully trained deer dog. Why not show a video of the dog following an intricate 1000m track 24hrs old and indicating sign along the way? It doesn't matter if its training or for real. It show that we know what is required.

    Starting tests and training days, and having folk like Rudi over to report back is certainly one way of possibly opening doors in the future. It is clear from the currently running threads and passionate responses that there is a following in this country who would like to also see that happen.
    Now 'THAT' is a good post with good written English to match! Whilst I am a novice on the deer stalking front, I'm a lot more experienced on the dog training side and may well get one of these deer dogs in the future as a training experience and an asset to deer stalkers in my local area. I love dog training and shooting of all types and would enjoy training a different type of dog from labs and spaniels as long as there was enough work for the dog to give it the experience to be able to call it a fully trained dog?

  10. #10
    Why not try a teckel. I have just had a litter from good working stock They are fantastic trackers.

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