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Thread: Out of Season and Night Authorities

  1. #1

    Out of Season and Night Authorities

    I have recently taken on a few areas for deer control that certainly need positive action to reduce numbers. With the new legislation as regards female deer commencing on 1st April I applied to SNH for two out of season authorities and a night authority. The applications request some very in depth answers as to what action has been taken to resolve the issues within the legal seasons and times for culling along with a good few other searching questions. I had site visits from the SNH and must admit to being put through the mill at these visits along with careful examination of the sites for evidence of deer damage and my knowlegde of same. I see nothing wrong with this approach from the SNH in that in application you are applying to legally break the law and they should ensure that your proposed action is totally neccessary and still maintains the welfare of deer.
    I have been succesful in my applications but I hope that all applications are treated in the same robust manner.

  2. #2
    Sounds very cosy. SHN help create a bill which they then need staff to enforce. Are you employed in the public sector perhaps?

    Self serving bureaucracy in action and your sycophantic write up will only encourage them (IMHO)

    when are they setting up the fox commission? I might apply for a job as there are not many proper ones left.
    Last edited by CWY308; 21-04-2012 at 07:35.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by CWY308 View Post
    Sounds very cosy. SHN help create a bill which they then need staff to enforce. Are you employed in the public sector perhaps?

    Self serving bureaucracy in action and your sycophantic write up will only encourage them (IMHO)

    when are they setting up the fox commission? I might apply for a job as there are not many proper ones left.
    That's a bit strong isn't it? On one of my permissions there is going to be a re-planting programme this year, there was an earlier one, before I had the land, and the deer decimated the young trees. I applied earlier in the year for a night licence which was granted and expired at the end of March. I too had to fill in forms, provide evidence of deer damage and have a site visit all quite straightforward but all the relevant questions had to b answered correctly, which is only right and proper. I think what Gazza was implying, from my understanding of his post is that he hopes all the licences that are issued are done so under the same stringent examination as his was, and before you ask I am not employed in the public sector.

    John
    A clever man knows his strengths, a wise man knows his weaknesses

  4. #4
    I consult with SNH on a regular basis regarding forestry. During the recession they openly said to me that they where dealing with every case presented to them in full depth to be able to justify there sector and 'up there work load'. I believe that this may be a continuation of this.

    I'm and NOT saying that out of season/night shooting application should be handed out on request, but there will be a degree of ongoing work creation.

    HH

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by CWY308 View Post
    Sounds very cosy. SHN help create a bill which they then need staff to enforce. Are you employed in the public sector perhaps?

    Self serving bureaucracy in action and your sycophantic write up will only encourage them (IMHO)

    when are they setting up the fox commission? I might apply for a job as there are not many proper ones left.
    Steady CWY308 , you miss what I am getting at entirely or perhaps you do and for whatever reason just don't agree with it. I just hope that the same attention to detail that was put into my application is put into all applications.
    Last edited by Gazza; 21-04-2012 at 09:15.

  6. #6
    Out of season and night shooting authorities are not handed out at a drop of a hat,as Gazza says damage has to be prevalent and normally every other means done already,ie hit the deer hard in normal seasons and stalking times,that's been my experience of them,out of season ones are normally only handed out now if you can justify it cost wise and the crop you are trying to protect is still getting hammered,same with night shooting

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  7. #7
    I really don'y understand the response CWY308, if you are a DEER MANAGER which is not the same as a RECREACTIONAL STALKER you are there to manage the deer number to reduce damage to an acceptable level where necessary. Not just shoot what you fancy?

    SNH are basically the body that absorbed DCS and is resposible for the conservation and control of deer in Scotland. Legislation is in place to prevent people simply shooting deer at night and out of season because of welfare and safety issues etc. But obviously, when a high number of deer require immediate action to prevent damage or risks to public safety then there is provision where F&C (fit and competent) registered persons can be authorised to cull at night and out of season to improve 'out of control' situations.

    So simply, the current system tries to ensure that people do apply to have such authorisations and have considered alternative solutions before battering deer out of season and on the lamp. The process needs administration and is not a money making exercise or stunt by SNH. I'm not saying SNH are perfect but there is legislation in place and a system is in play that works so that deer can be managed properly.

    I own woodland and am sorting out F&C and authorisations to shoot out of season and at night to protect my investment. I also shoot on a bit of ground with all year round stags and calves to a year which has extended seasons for females. In honesty when deer need shot for the reasons above, you either get on with it and do the job or step aside and let real stalkers do the job or you mae the situation worse.

    I hope you recognise better the importance of what GAZZA is trying to communicate after what I've said.

  8. #8
    There is a world of difference between managing/culling deer to protect crops/investments to recreational stalking.P@B got it spot on.
    Red deer are often not shot up here until very late on,they have basically become nocturnal where I shoot them,what do you do let them frolic amongst the trees/barley and devastate the farmers/estates livelihoods,no you cull them whichever legal way you can,you still put the time and effort into stalking them but if they do turn nocturnal they have to be controlled

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  9. #9
    Good post, it will maybe let people see what those of us that have been involved with out of season shooting and night licenses have always know.


    They are not as easy as to get as some seem to think , have seen too many post implying that they are given out willy nilly with out any real consideration of the damage being caused.


    Unfortunately there are those that think there is never a good reason for night shooting nor out of season shooting
    licenses.

    Usually the recreational stalker spending a few hours at the weekend or even less stalking mistakenly believing that he is managing the deer population.


    Its only right that someone can protect their investment, but its also right that these licenses should also only be issued when necessary, damage by deer is not limited to when they are in season, don't see why any one should have a problem with out of season shooting [when damage is being done] so long as proper consideration is given to dependant young [ which is covered in the new legislation]

    Night shooting on the other hand is effective at dealing with small groups of deer causing damage, when the group can be taken out in one go, what it is not suitable for is large numbers of deer, when a group of deer have been lamped and some of their number shot, survivors become lamp shy very quickly and further attempts at lamping will very likely be unsuccessful

  10. #10
    Bogtrotter i am one of the ones that think a night licence is given out to easy to some and i am sure that the LAST RESORT asked for in the paper work has not been carried out buy some. But i do believe that it is Necessary to have the option just not handed out the way they are to the commission year in year out for the same ground shows that some one some were has got it very badly wrong.
    Last edited by 6pointer; 22-04-2012 at 16:22.

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