Importing a rifle from EU countries ?

Falcodave

Active Member
Hi all - anyone know anything about buying and importing a rifle from other EU countries specifically France - do you just need a slot on your ticket - also how about buying from a private individual as opposed to a gunshop.
Is it possible to just turn up at British Customs etc ?

ATB
 
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Hi all - anyone know anything about buying and importing a rifle from other EU countries specifically France - do you just need a slot on your ticket - also how about buying from a private individual as opposed to a gunshop.
Is it possible to just turn up at British Customs etc ?

Hi normally in Britian you need the caliba confirmed first through the police [as you know] you need a copied bill with all the rifling information to you , you then have two choices either get the shop over here get it sent to your local gun shop [inform them before ]they might require a small handling fee , or if it is a private sale possibly sent to you or you local fire arms unit , but normally customs are not involved , "BUT NOTIFY "all the correct agencies before and no problems should occur.
 
Hi all - anyone know anything about buying and importing a rifle from other EU countries specifically France - do you just need a slot on your ticket - also how about buying from a private individual as opposed to a gunshop.
Is it possible to just turn up at British Customs etc ?

ATB

Apologies in advance if this question has already been asked and answered elsewhere on here, but as a search didn't turn anything up, here goes...

A friend of mine (no, really!) has committed himself to buy a rifle from a dealer in Germany and is planning to have it sent to the RFD he uses in the UK. As it happens, the same UK RFD will also be visiting the German RFD's premises in a few weeks' time and so could collect the rifle in person.

My friend's question is: which method of getting the rifle to the UK would be easier, and what paperwork would be required in each case?

I had supposed that all the UK RFD would need to do would be to send the German RFD a copy of his details, after which the German RFD would post the rifle to him, but maybe it's more complicated than that.

If anyone has experience of this kind of sale/transfer, it would be great to know how you did it.

TIA
I buy most of my rifles on the continent. What I do is as follows:

1 I obtain the details, number etc from the rifle I want to buy.
2 I contact my local Firearms Department and ask them to put the rifle on my FAC.
3 I send a copy of this to the German dealer.
4 He then sends the rifle to my local approved gunshop where I collect it.
 
I have just had a firearm sent over from Germany. The problem at the moment is that TNT or any other courier, will NOT insure weapons sent across borders from Germany, and so the gun export trade in Germany has dried up a fair bit as it is not worth the risk for a gunshop to sending something out uninsured. So when I found what I was looking for I looked for a third part to basically sort everything out. The process I am aware of is that the German local government must have some paperwork filled in, cost is about 70euros; add to this shipping, handling and insurance. I paid about £200 all in, direct to my RFD. All my RFD had to do was email his RFD and Passport to Germany. Then he was sent it via courier and put it on his books, and then my FAC as normal.

I was considering going over to get it, but with flights, car etc it would only have been marginally cheaper, add in the fact that I would still incure the 80euro paperwork fee to the government as it needs to come out of the country and it was more expensive.

There us a European Firearms Pass, for taking guns on holiday in Europe, but not sure what you would do to buy one? Would the slot be added to you European Firearms Pass?
 
I’ve mentioned this previously on this site so you should be able to find the information that you require by doing a search but I will repeat it just the same.
It couldn’t be easier buying from a dealer, I don’t know regarding buying from an individual. I have previously bought rifles on two separate occasions in France direct from gunsmiths (yes they have gunsmiths in France and not just dealers). Each time I ensured that I had a space on my FAC for the rifle I wished to purchase so that I could legally possess it on my return and also mention on my EFP so that I could possess it in France. I emailed scans of my documents to the armurier a week or so before travelling to France so that he could deal with all the paperwork on his end. Obviously I had my passport with me as proof of identity. I informed U.K. customs on arrival at eurotunnel but quite frankly they took a few notes but weren’t really interested as all my paperwork was in order. I then informed my Chief Constable on my return of my acquisition.
 
TIA
I buy most of my rifles on the continent. What I do is as follows:

1 I obtain the details, number etc from the rifle I want to buy.
2 I contact my local Firearms Department and ask them to put the rifle on my FAC.
3 I send a copy of this to the German dealer.
4 He then sends the rifle to my local approved gunshop where I collect it.

100% agree with this. I do the same with one addition. At the same time as asking the UK FD to add the rifle to my FAC I also ask them to put it on my EFP. No costs for the latter.
 
I realise I'm resurrecting an old thread here, but I don't think this question warrants a new one. If I wanted to buy a rifle from an individual in France as opposed to an RFD, for instance using Naturabuy.fr, would the following process work, assuming the seller agreed to cooperate?
1. I obtain the necessary slot on my FAC beforehand, obviusly.
2. I buy the rifle, supplying copies of my FAC, and ask the seller to send the rifle to a gunshop in France, for instance the one where I buy ammunition near my in-laws.
3. Always assuming that everyone in teh chain has agreed to help, I ask the French RFD to send the rifle to my UK one.
4. I pick up the rifle from my UK RFD and he enters it on my FAC, just as if I'd bought it here.

Is that correct?

Now that said, given that a load of sellers on Naturabuy specify that they won't send guns and that it's collection only, it may be harder than it needs to be. They also fail to sell their guns this way. I'm not sure why they set themselves up to fail in this way.
 
No. Just as it is illegal for an RFD in UK to sell a weapon to a Frenchman, and allow him to walk out of the shop with it, on the sole strength of that Frenchman's French Permis de Chasse or Permis de Tir. It is also illegal for a gunshop in France to sell a weapon to a British Citizen who does not possess any form of authority VALID IN FRANCE to acquire TAKE AWAY IN PERSON and possess that weapon.

So you cannot legally walk into a gunshop with a British FAC and buy a weapon authoried to acquire on that FAC over the counter and take it away.

Remember that British rule of law, despite some police forces specifying on conditions of "big game" rifles what it may be used for "in Africa", and that a British FAC is no more nor less valid in France than the Sudoku puzzle torn out of Le Parisien newspaper.

The old facility to acquire some .22 rimfire rifles merely with proof of ID and proof of a French address ceased some half decade ago. So any import or export must be done as if the British Citizen customer is, in fact, not present in France. As a normal import export done by telephone or e-mail.
 
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Yes, OK, that makes sense, so I personally can't buy a rifle from an individual in France, but I could have it imported by an RFD here from an RFD in France on my behalf, correct? That's the missing link in my plan I think. So really, I would need to commission an RFD in the UK to buy from an RFD in France on my behalf. If the original seller was an individual, I'd have to have the RFD buy the rifle from them on my behalf. In practice though, the French RFD is going to want to make some money from this. Therefore really, I'd probably have to tell them what I'm after, they'll find it however they please, and then charge me for it accordingly when they export it to my RFD here. Something like that.

Although I know that people in France buy from Frankonia in Germany quite happily. I daresay that's because Frankonia handles all the import/export business since they have branches on both sides of the Rhine. Plus of course the UK doesn't recognise the EFP as a sufficient document, unlike most other EU countries.
 
No. Just as it is illegal for an RFD in UK to sell a weapon to a Frenchman, and allow him to walk out of the shop with it, on the sole strength of that Frenchman's French Permis de Chasse or Permis de Tir. It is also illegal for a gunshop in France to sell a weapon to a British Citizen who does not possess any form of authority VALID IN FRANCE to acquire TAKE AWAY IN PERSON and possess that weapon.

So you cannot legally walk into a gunshop with a British FAC and buy a weapon authoried to acquire on that FAC over the counter and take it away.

Remember that British rule of law, despite some police forces specifying on conditions of "big game" rifles what it may be used for "in Africa", and that a British FAC is no more nor less valid in France than the Sudoku puzzle torn out of Le Parisien newspaper.

The old facility to acquire some .22 rimfire rifles merely with proof of ID and proof of a French address ceased some half decade ago. So any import or export must be done as if the British Citizen customer is, in fact, not present in France. As a normal import export done by telephone or e-mail.

Why not, I've done it on two occasions in the past.

Though in all honesty I did contact the dealer first and sent him photo copies of my passport, FAC and EFP. I had slots for the rifle that I wanted to purchase on my FAC and mention of the rifle on my EFP. The rifles that I purchased in France were category five I believe (express rifles). I simply popped into the shop and purchased the rifles as you would in this country. It may well be more difficult with rifles that fall into other categories.

P.S. Oh and by the way I entered both rifles on to my own certificate myself as that is what my firearms department recommended that I do. I obviously informed my Chief Constable of the purchases immediately on my return. By emailing the dealer in advance I was able to supply my force with serial numbers for the EFP prior to my departure for France. I tried to declare both rifles at British customs at Calais but they simply weren't interested.
 
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pine martin if the individual takes the said rifle and you have the details entered onto your firearms certificate you can have the rfd send you the rifle direct to your home.
you need to contact enquiries.ilb@bis.gsi.gov.uk and speak to roy smiles who will issue you a firearms import liscence free of charge the rfd at the other end will sort out an export liscence which is around 35 euros. once granted you can fill in the details here but you need conformation first as it will block you if you have not sorted with roy first. ICMS - Import Case Management System
once you have the paperwork you can send your papers via fax or email these documents stay with the rifle till it arrives inj the uk for you to sign on rifle arrival.
this is all above board and have personally done this in germany and all eu country are the same exept export liscence price might vary and courier costs also.
if you decide to go through someone in the uk it could cost alot for filling in the form it takes around 5 mins to do and only takes a few days to complete from start to finish, atb wayne
 
When Holland's had a presence in Paris it was a lot easier! Took the two weapons to them at Northolt and they took them onto their RFD and that was then advised to my FAC issuing force.

About two weeks later the two weapons were in Paris at their shop on Avenue Victor Hugo. Collected the .22 rimfire on the authority of my passport and my French electricity bill! Then a taxi from there back home with it to the 17th.

Again when the time came to have the weapons returned to UK simply picked them up when they had arrived from Bruton Street.

So the best route is via a French dealer who has contacts here in UK and regularly send items to the UK.
 
Enfield I take it that the .22 rifle you mention was bought simply under "declaration" in France?

I nearly bought a 8x57irs Sabatti express rifle a similar way some years ago at the French game fair. The dealer was quite happy to sell me the rifle simply on the basis of my passport and a declaration. He said that we could sort it out there and then at the mobile gendarme station on site. I was sorely tempted by the price he was offering it for at the time but decided not to buy. That was about ten years ago and I believe that things have changed a fair bit since then, pity though.
 
Yes. Category 7, a declaration. But now this doesn't exist any longer. The rifle weapons went over to France in about 2002 from memory.

As of September this year, they tightened up some of the legislation. Under the same piece of legislation that authorised the use of certain formerly military calibres (but not all, 6.5x55 Swedish and indeed 6.5x54 MS are still out) for hunting, they've also now widened the range of firearms types that need to be declared and included a requirement to prevent access to functioning firearms to non-authorised persons. All that "reasonable precaution" stuff that we have, essentially. Now that said, there isn't much provision for enforcement. On a French forum I use, someone pointed out that new firearms laws were useless given that most hunters weren't even aware of the current ones. Certainly when I was last in France, most of the hunters I spoke to were reasonably aware of the new legislation, but totally unconcerned by it.

The retailers and manufacturers however, are doing a very good job of flogging everyone gunsafes, trigger-guards and so on, as well as rifles and ammunition in .308Win and .30-06!
 
Pine Marten you mention that most French hunters were pretty much unaware of their own firearms laws, that's something that has struck me also. In fact some French gun dealers aren't very sure of the laws either, but there again you could say the same for a good many dealers in this country.

Regarding security the President of the local hunting association that I hunted with in Normandy a few years ago was only to happy to show me his guns hung up on the wall in his unlocked shooting room. He couldn't understand why I was puzzled at the guns being unsecured in an unlocked room. "Not required" he said "only those with a Permis de Tir need to do that". :cuckoo:
 
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pine martin if the individual takes the said rifle and you have the details entered onto your firearms certificate you can have the rfd send you the rifle direct to your home.
you need to contact enquiries.ilb@bis.gsi.gov.uk and speak to roy smiles who will issue you a firearms import liscence free of charge the rfd at the other end will sort out an export liscence which is around 35 euros. once granted you can fill in the details here but you need conformation first as it will block you if you have not sorted with roy first. ICMS - Import Case Management System
once you have the paperwork you can send your papers via fax or email these documents stay with the rifle till it arrives inj the uk for you to sign on rifle arrival.
this is all above board and have personally done this in germany and all eu country are the same exept export liscence price might vary and courier costs also.
if you decide to go through someone in the uk it could cost alot for filling in the form it takes around 5 mins to do and only takes a few days to complete from start to finish, atb wayne

Thanks very much for that Wayne! That will come in handy one day hopefully. I've found the paperwork for the French side too, in case anyone's interested:

http://www.douane.gouv.fr/page.asp?id=246#0

Transfert vers un autre État membre de la Communauté européenne


Le transfert d'armes, munitions et leurs éléments relevant des catégories 1 (§1, 2 et 3), 4 I, 5 et 7 I et III du décret n° 95-589 du 6 mai 1995 est soumis à l'obtention d'un permis.

● Les demandes de permis, établies sur le formulaire CERFA n° 11287, sont envoyées à la direction générale des douanes et droits indirects – Bureau E/2 Prohibitions et protection du consommateur – 11, rue des deux communes, 93558 Montreuil CEDEX.

Le permis est délivré par ce service sur production de l’accord préalable de l'État membre de destination, si ce dernier l’exige pour les armes, munitions ou éléments concernés. Lors de l'expédition, les armes et leurs éléments doivent être présentés au service des douanes avec le permis correspondant. Celui-ci accompagne les marchandises jusqu'à destination.

So it looks like you start with your UK paperwork as the French authorities need to know that the destination country has agreed to the importation of the firearm, and once you have that, you can fill in your CERFA 11287, for which you need the particulars of the gun, and then you can just send it via courrier with all the paperwork to a UK RFD who can enter it onto your FAC I suppose. Not that hard, really.
 
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Pine Marten you mention that most French hunters were pretty much unaware of their own firearms laws, that's something that has struck me also. In fact some French gun dealers aren't very sure of the laws either, but there again you could say the same for a good many dealers in this country.

Regarding security the President of the local hunting association that I hunted with in Normandy a few years ago was only to happy to show me his guns hung up on the wall in his unlocked shooting room. He couldn't understand why I was puzzled at the guns being unsecured in an unlocked room. "Not required" he said "only those with a Permis de Tir need to do that". :cuckoo:

Well we're at the other end of the scale as regards this stuff. But when I went into the local gunshop, also in Normandy, to buy some rifle ammunition last month, they never asked me for my EFP or anything else, just for my credit card. I asked my fellow hunters whether that was normal, and they confirmed that they are supposed to check everyone's permis de chasser or other paperwork, but that mostly they don't bother.
 
no worries pinemartin just to add to anybody wanting to do this i cannot stress enough how simple this is and how quickly it is processed and it costs nothing for the paperwork this side of the fence.
well worth the email and spending 5 mins to fill out the application, atb wayne
 
Two possibly stupid final questions:
1. I've done all my paperwork, the courrier's delivered the rifle to my front door, I've signed for it. Now do I enter it onto my FAC myself, or should the seller in France have done that beforehand?
2. Can I import ammunition to go with it in the same way? I only ask because if I did this, it would be for a rifle using 7x65R, and as far as I know, pretty much no-one stocks it in the UK because no-one uses it.
 
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