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Thread: Roe Numbers..

  1. #1

    Roe Numbers..

    My Permission is around 500 acres of arable and grazing, It is surrounded by an estate of around 2500 acres, there are several small woodlands and deans where roe will lie up. I know the permission and nearby ground well (around 800 acres), I have been walking it for the last 8 years, so I know where the deer will be and had got to know individual groups that I would regularly see in certain places. 2 years ago there were around 20 adult deer on the 800 acres of which my permission is a part, now there are only 4 or 5. The estate let the stalking a couple of years ago and obviously this has had an impact on numbers. I am now wondering wether I should take any deer on my permission at all as the numbers seem to be so low.

    I can't blame the stalking outfit as they have a living to make and for me its a pastime, but I do wonder if they have been a little OTT. At 600 for a good buck I can see their motivation though...

    What do you guys think?

  2. #2
    Shoot the deer you want to shoot - for your own enjoyment. If you think too much about it, you wont be able to justify pulling the trigger on anything.

  3. #3
    Age old canundrum Tom,

    Some wouldnt put as much thought in as you have clearly done and been of the opinion if i dont shoot it somebody else will.

    At the moment with small pockets of opportunity being well and truly taken advantage of Arne here in Poole is a shadow of what it used to be..

    I guess the ever growing demand of the stalking community will eventually one day outstrip the availability
    Blessed be the sheeple for they shall inherit bugger all...

  4. #4
    I think while ever people are willing to pay 600 for a good buck there will always be OTT shooting.
    And you can blame the outfit, they obviously don't no what there doing and being greedy.
    As for what you should do, it's a difficult one cos why should your sport be ruined by greedy others but on the other hand you shooting them as well won't help numbers.
    Can't you have a word with the estate management?

    Cheers. Matt.

  5. #5
    take every opportunity that you have. Dont pass one by so someone else can take it.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom D View Post
    My Permission is around 500 acres of arable and grazing, It is surrounded by an estate of around 2500 acres, there are several small woodlands and deans where roe will lie up. I know the permission and nearby ground well (around 800 acres), I have been walking it for the last 8 years, so I know where the deer will be and had got to know individual groups that I would regularly see in certain places. 2 years ago there were around 20 adult deer on the 800 acres of which my permission is a part, now there are only 4 or 5. The estate let the stalking a couple of years ago and obviously this has had an impact on numbers. I am now wondering wether I should take any deer on my permission at all as the numbers seem to be so low.

    I can't blame the stalking outfit as they have a living to make and for me its a pastime, but I do wonder if they have been a little OTT. At 600 for a good buck I can see their motivation though...

    What do you guys think?
    Tom, I know exactly where you are coming from.

    I think your best would be to get your permission to speak to the estate for you. That way you can get known to the estate first.
    Now the reason for this is that the twats that have moved in next door (and probably call themselves deer managers) will not be there very long if they have annihilated all of the roe, it just won't be commercially viable.
    It's then that you can get your foot in the door and speak to the estate.
    What you need to stress to them is that although it was nice to get a huge wodge of cash in the short term in the longer term it will probably take 5 years to repair the population (to create something that's got some worth). So virtually no money (as the stalking will be worthless).
    Now you could offer them 1/2 or slightly more of what they were getting but it would be much longer term.
    Guestimate
    Current company 3 years @ 2500/yr = 7500
    No or low income for 5 years
    You 1500/yr @ 8 yrs = 12,000

    This unfortunately is the only language that estate managers know

    I worked for a company that once rented a 2500 acre estate. Turns out it had been shot to s--t and they had to drop out after 1 year. What's worse is that the previous stalker had left the estate owing 10,000 in stalking rent.

    Yes, do blame the stalking outfit. Unless they were contracted to eliminate the deer, it is very poor management!! And BTW very few bucks are worth 600

    AND PLEASE DO NOT LISTEN TO ANY IDIOTS ON HERE WHO TELL YOU TO BLAST EVERY LIVING DEER SEE. Let your conscience dictate what you should shoot.
    Last edited by teyhan1; 03-05-2012 at 22:16.

  7. #7
    Thanks for the replies, not sure I can afford to out bid the current lease, It is a bit disappointing though. I will continue to monitor the numbers and if a decent buck moves in I'll probably take it. Some of the farmers who also let to this outfit do it in return for a bit of venison, I wonder if they would still be so keen if they knew how much they were charging their clients....

  8. #8
    I have made the mistake of leaving big bucks in the past naively thinking that they would be best left to breed, only to have them poached weeks after or strayed onto a neibours land and end up in his freezer.
    So i am of mixed opinion and have no set plan if i see and feel like taking a good buck the i shall,but i will mostly leave the moderate animals and stick with the cull deer.
    In a perfect world where i had thousands of acres no poachers or neighbours a proper plan might work, but in my word i havnt so it aint going to work. DF

  9. #9
    Tom not knowing your ground I can only talk in general terms it sounds as if your neighbours may be shooting to much but consider this you say your ground is 500 acres of arable and grassing, you mention small woodlands
    but are they on your ground or your neighbours, if your ground is only farm land with no woodland on it shoot what you want to shoot and forget about maintaining a roe population, roe may visit your ground but will not be resident.

    The roe population is determined by the amount of holding cover on the ground ground forget.


    about the arable ground count up the acreage of the woodland scrub cover even hedge bottoms can hold roe.



    Once you have arrived at your acreage of holding cover, then ask yourself how good is it poor cover is thin and open
    good thick plenty of cover for them to be able to stay out of sight , thick enough to give them shelter from the wind etc.

    If the cover is poor then you can hold approx one roe per 25 acres

    If its good it should be not less than one roe per 10 acres and could be as much as one in 5 acres maybe slightly more in a very very good area.


    But these figures are for holding ground not your total acreage, so if you have no holding cover on your ground the deer are visiting and you are shooting your neighbours deer.

    If you have 25 acres of good holding cover on your ground your figure of 4 or 5 is probably about right.

    Its holding cover thats important in determining density's, using the above you should be able to work out roughly what your ground should be able to hold, also that of your neighbours, then you will have a better idea of whether your neighbours are shooting to many or maybe the numbers were to high previously.

    As I said I don't know your ground and its not an exact science as very few areas are all good or all bad as regarding holding areas, more usually a mixture of both , but if you use the above figures as a yardstick you will be pretty close to the potential numbers a piece of ground could hold.

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