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swarovski

Well-Known Member
Have read on here numerous times shooters testing their ammo as Bisley,your are either taking a risk or didn't realise that expanding ammo is not allowed on mod ranges,thought I would put you in the picture if you didn't know,atb swarovski
 
Hi swarovski,


I think you might be slightly mistaken so, here goes.


Expanding ammunition is not permitted in NRA competitions or, on any of the NRA's Electronic targets.
The only exception I believe is the use of on our range that is, The British Sporting Rifle Club.


The Running deer, running boar and the statics are administered by the BSRC committee which have negotiated their own procedures, conditions and stringent safety rules concerning both certain types of ammunition, this to include expanding ammunition and also certain calibres that are allowed i.e. the 22-250. That along with our own HME procedures pertinent to our range use only.


We have however imposed our own rules governing permitted use on some of our targets and ranges within our complex. We are, I believe the only exception on Bisley ? If I am wrong I’m sure that I will be corrected by one of our more learned members more knowledgeable than myself.


To that note, it’s a fantastic club, a great bunch of guys.......and girls I’m very pleased to say! Many enjoyable hours I spend there and in great company.


Kindest regards,
Mickey308
 
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I was just relaying what I was told just I case some have been using expanding ammo there,also I was told max muzzle velocity is 3280 fps regardless of caliber
 
Expanding ammunition on Bisley ranges

Further to a reply I made to swarovski I looked at the Bisley range safety regulations and it does not mention expanding ammunition as being prohibited.

2 Firearms and Ammunition

a All shooters are responsible for ensuring that their firearms and ammunition are safe to
use. All firearms and ammunition must be made available for inspection and testing
whenever required. The regulations concerning dangerous ammunition are laid out in
Appendix V of the NRA Handbook, Rules of Shooting (the Bisley Bible), which is available
on request.

b Unless the CE has given prior permission in writing, use of the following on Bisley ranges is
prohibited:
i Tracer; incendiary; armour piercing; armour piercing incendiary (API); depleted
uranium; ammunition containing any igniferous or explosive substance.
ii Projectiles of any construction other than lead core with gilding metal or soft iron
jacket, including specifically mono-metallic bullets (ie made from a single metal) except
solid lead bullets.

c The use on any NRA range of cartridges such as .50” Browning MG, 0.55” Boyes Anti-tank,
12.7mm Russian MG, or cartridges of similar or greater power, whether ‘downloaded’ or
not, is absolutely forbidden, regardless of the type of firearm used to fire them.

Reproduced from Bisley Range Safety Regulations

Expanding Ammunition

Expanding (hollow-point) ammunition is defined as a round which is specifically designed to expand in a controlled manner on contact with the target. While a non hollow-point round expands on contact, it is not specifically designed to do so in a controlled manner. Expanding ammunition is normally only authorised for hunting or vermin shooting. This covers both small-bore (.22) and full-bore calibres. Expanding (hollow-point) rounds are not allowed for target competition shooting, but you may use expanding ammunition at targets for zeroing and adjustments, subject to NRA specific approval. Some police forces require that you list separately the target (solid point) and hollow-point ammunition of the same calibre, while other forces are happy to list “target and/or hollow-point” up to the maximum allowable for that calibre. Note that the .22 target ammunition that has a very small hole in the nose as part of the manufacturing process is NOT counted as “hollow-point”.

Reproduced from The NRA website

Hope this helps clear it up a little.

Regards,
Mickey308
 
you know your stuff mate and where to find it out,fairplay too you........ i stand corrected on info i was given :rolleyes: .it would be nice to be able to test some expanding stuff at longrange.
 
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Swaro, the issue is almost always with what your FAC says. Use of expanding (section 5) ammunition is exclusively for hunting, or zeroing/practice for hunting (at least according to all FAC's I've seen conditioned for it) and so you would need to be able to make a reasonable case that your use on the range is compatible with this. It certainly rules out using it for competition, and unless you are likely to engage live targets at long ranges(unusual in the UK) you might have a little difficulty explaining it's use for this too.
 
Yeah yoom right matt,Ive authority to use expanding,it's just down to ok it before going ahead.I do test some expanding stuff out to 400yds on paper,I did last Sunday,wind was a little swirly in the valley but my 25-06 t3v with 85gr nos bal tips shot just a shade over 2 inch group,wasn't unhappy with that,av shot better but in better conditions.
 
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I believe the actual wording for use of expanding ammunition in the Act is, "in
connection with the various exempted purposes", as detailed in the condition on your FAC.

Be creative and make it work for you.
 
ii Projectiles of any construction other than lead core with gilding metal or soft iron
jacket, including specifically mono-metallic bullets (ie made from a single metal) except
solid lead bullets.

So to be clear a Barnes TSX would be prohibited then?
 
Have read on here numerous times shooters testing their ammo as Bisley,your are either taking a risk or didn't realise that expanding ammo is not allowed on mod ranges,thought I would put you in the picture if you didn't know,atb swarovski

There is absoluitely no issue using expanding ammunition on MOD ranges, Bisley included, as long as it is for zeroing, testing or even plinking and your ticket gives you the authority to hold such ammunition. As has been said already you can't use expanding ammo in comps.

Also... interesting note further down re 'single metal' projectiles. Wonder how that works with the guys that use CNC machined solids in the long range comps? although it does say 'without authority from the CE.' Perhaps this isn't difficult to obtain?
 
To that note, it’s a fantastic club, a great bunch of guys.......and girls I’m very pleased to say! Many enjoyable hours I spend there and in great company.

I'll be there on Saturday for my induction day, at the brutal time for a saturday morning of 8.45. Not that 8.45am is that early, it's just that no-one put a railway line between Ealing and Brookwood and you have to go back through Central London. Anyway, maybe see you there!
 
"There is absoluitely no issue using expanding ammunition on MOD ranges, Bisley included, as long as it is for zeroing, testing or even plinking and your ticket gives you the authority to hold such ammunition. As has been said already you can't use expanding ammo in comps."


Other than range standing orders and as mentioned conditions on your certificate. It's not just competitions either it is target shooting in general. Though those that can legally possess and use expanding ammunition are permitted zeroing and reasonable practise using such ammunition, this isn't defined in the guidance.
 
Other than range standing orders and as mentioned conditions on your certificate. It's not just competitions either it is target shooting in general. Though those that can legally possess and use expanding ammunition are permitted zeroing and reasonable practise using such ammunition, this isn't defined in the guidance.

They do give examples in the HO Guidance though - and made a point of underlining the "in connection with" part, maybe to indicate that it would be flexible and up to the user to decide? I would certainly include general 'target shooting' within my own 'in connection with' usage - I'm practising and (hopefully) improving my shooting whilst target shooting so that I can achieve the best possible and most humane end result on live quarry, officer!

4.7 Section 10(2)(b) of the 1997 Act amends
section 5A(4)(b) of the 1968 Act so that
the use of expanding ammunition is in
connection with
the various exempted
purposes. This allows, for example, a deer
stalker or vermin shooter to zero with their
rifle on a range or other suitable land and to
do sufficient training and testing with the
expanding ammunition.
 
"There is absoluitely no issue using expanding ammunition on MOD ranges, Bisley included, as long as it is for zeroing, testing or even plinking and your ticket gives you the authority to hold such ammunition. As has been said already you can't use expanding ammo in comps."


Other than range standing orders and as mentioned conditions on your certificate. It's not just competitions either it is target shooting in general. Though those that can legally possess and use expanding ammunition are permitted zeroing and reasonable practise using such ammunition, this isn't defined in the guidance.

The only standing orders relating to ammunition at Bisley have already been posted on here. There is no restriction on expanding ammunition, only solid projectiles. The reference to target shooting and expanding ammunition comes from the guidance that states expanding ammunition will not be granted for the sole purpose of target shooting.

When zeroing, practicing or developing what are you supposd to shoot at if not targets? doesn't that automatically classify it as 'target shooting!?'
 
Though Bisley is regarded as a M.O.D. range because of the shared danger area I was actually refering more to other military ranges many of which specifically preclude the use of expanding ammunition. Which quite frankly is a bit silly as in my experience I've seen far more ricochets with fmj than with expanding.

Orion I had several discussions with FEO's in my area about this subject over the years, it's always them that have brought the subject up. They have always admitted that it's very much a grey area regarding how much practise would be regarded as unaceptable to them so dont tend to push it. The answer has to be "don't kick the arse out of it".
 
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The answer has to be "don't kick the arse out of it".

Although it has to be asked how many kicks would they be aware of?

If they want to try and police it to the nth degree then I'd suggest they would be both onto a loser and also risk making a laughing stock of themselves. Maybe yet another example of trying to micro-manage the lawful use of firearms to no good purpose?
 
Couldn't agree more, though I do have the feeling that some over zelous soul will try to take it further at some time in the future just because they can and also they wouldn't be paying for it, we would.
 
Hi Pine Marten,

Welcome to the BSRC then! You have two great guys doing the induction course Saturday in Steve and Ian. Both are very knowledgeable and want members to get the most out of the club.

I'm told that the induction course is a lot more enjoyable these day's than perhaps it once was? I will sit in on one some time in the future. As I've said you're in safe hands with these two and I hope you enjoy it and indeed the club itself. Again, welcome.

Warmest regards,
mickey308
 
Thanks Mickey.

I've met Steve once before and spoken to him on the phone since. It should certainly be more enjoyable than when I first went back in March as there will be glorious sunshine instead of pouring rain, hail and biting cold wind. If nothing else, I should get a decent tan!
 
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