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Thread: shot placement

  1. #1

    shot placement

    For a long time I believed that a shot placed so as to destroy the large arteries supplying blood to the lungs and also cause the most damage to the thickest part of the lungs was the quickest and most humane way to kill a deer .. The theory is that the animal will probably fall down unconscious, and with its heart still beating its chest will become flooded with blood and the animal will die very quickly by drowning and suffocation . A shot that causes massive bleeding and damage to internal organs but leaves the heart intact means its blood is not being feed into its system causing the organs that need it can no longer function ... coments please ..

  2. #2
    Rapid loss of blood pressure will occur whether you hit the heart or hit the pulmonary artery. It hasn't really got much to do with whether the heart has received a direct hit or not or is still beating. If the circulatory system has received enough damage and there is a clear wound channel through which it can drain there will be extremely rapid loss of blood pressure.

    In my opinion the main aim of going for the centre of the heart/lung area is more to do with margin for error rather than intentionally trying to select high heart/arteries. By picking the centre of the zone you are giving yourself a few inches in every direction to minimise any unforeseen circumstances which might cause the bullet to end up slightly left/right/high/low.

  3. #3
    Distinguished Member 223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by csl View Post
    Rapid loss of blood pressure will occur whether you hit the heart or hit the pulmonary artery. It hasn't really got much to do with whether the heart has received a direct hit or not or is still beating. If the circulatory system has received enough damage and there is a clear wound channel through which it can drain there will be extremely rapid loss of blood pressure.

    In my opinion the main aim of going for the centre of the heart/lung area is more to do with margin for error rather than intentionally trying to select high heart/arteries. By picking the centre of the zone you are giving yourself a few inches in every direction to minimise any unforeseen circumstances which might cause the bullet to end up slightly left/right/high/low.
    +1

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by csl View Post
    Rapid loss of blood pressure will occur whether you hit the heart or hit the pulmonary artery. It hasn't really got much to do with whether the heart has received a direct hit or not or is still beating. If the circulatory system has received enough damage and there is a clear wound channel through which it can drain there will be extremely rapid loss of blood pressure.

    In my opinion the main aim of going for the centre of the heart/lung area is more to do with margin for error rather than intentionally trying to select high heart/arteries. By picking the centre of the zone you are giving yourself a few inches in every direction to minimise any unforeseen circumstances which might cause the bullet to end up slightly left/right/high/low.
    +1

    There's a bit of video recently posted on here that shows an impressive heart-shot with an arrow, fired from a compound bow. You can clearly see the strike and so if you didn't already know where a deer's heart was, this video shows you. However, that video also helps reinforce the fact of just how low in the thorax a deer's heart actually lies and therefore just how easy a "pure heart shot" would be to miss (below) if the animal were further away than you'd estimated (or extremely close). The "high-heart" or classic "heart/lung" shot give you more room for error and still yield very rapid and humane kills.

    Experience also confirms, exact bullet placement is ideal but minute of deer is all it takes to give quick, clean kills if you go for the heart/lung shot whereas (I'm told) even just as little as an inch too low on an attempted heart shot can give a painful but not immediately lethal brisket hit.

  5. #5
    SD Regular NorthDorset's Avatar
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    I can still hear Mike at Jelens words on this and remember a ghastly picture of a Deer, headshot, that left the deer alive for days with no lower jaw.

    Excuse the pun, No brainer. Heart and Lungs every time. Either or both get the job done quickly, shock does the rest. Most deer I have put one in the engine of room have just dropped. One notible buck clearly buffed up on Testosterone in the rut ran 50-60 yards with a fearsome bloodspray from both sides of his chest. I actually dont believe he felt it and then he dropped like a rock.

    At point blank range on a park deer I might be tempted for the flacid morbity of a hind brain shot but thats not my kind of Shooting. Unlike sitting targets Deer move and their heads move about most. Out and about heart and lungs every time.

  6. #6
    I don't doubt he was running without pain.
    Whether you believe in the "H" word or not (hydrostatic!). the shock of taking a round in the chest will leave the animal somewhat "dazed and confused" regardless of the vascular/pulmonary damage.

    As anyone who has been hit by a car, broken an arm, leg etc or fallen off something very high will know, the shock dulls any serious injuries.
    I cut my finger off. minimal by these standards, i was in total shock and felt nothing, I have had splinters that were more painful!

    I neck shot all the first half a dozen red deer. They were all "dead" when I got to them (all under 100yds).
    One was a large stag, bullet had gone through about level with C3-C4 vertebrae, just above the spine, not broken the spine but bone was visible through wound channel.
    He was completely unresponsive to eye touch and his heart had stopped and didnt bleed very quickly at all with the aorta cut.
    At less than 100yds I was there within a couple of mins.

    Dead without any blood loss and in the absence of "hydrostatic shock", how did he die?

  7. #7
    I might be wrong but I don't think the original poster intended this to become a heart/lung v.s. other shots debate - I thought he wanted to discuss deliberately selecting to rupture the arteries whilst leaving the heart intact?

    Just thought I'd throw that in there before we go way off topic and start arguing about heart/lung v.s. neck v.s. head...

    again....

  8. #8
    Robinz
    I'm pretty sure the mechanism is the same as for certain slaughter practices.
    Catastrophic blood loss which leads to rapid drop in blood pressure.
    Rapid drop in blood pressure leads to shut down of brain function = death.
    Whether a still beating heart speeds the process is dubious, damage to major blood vessels and lungs probably plays the major part.
    Best to go for the safe shot, if possible of course, as described earlier.
    I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, but it was only some fecker with a torch bringing me more work

  9. #9
    SD Regular NorthDorset's Avatar
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    Gee I guess Im just not that good! Sorry to have upset the applecart.

    I go for the chest shot. If I'm an Inch up I hit the Pulmenory Artery, upto 2-3 down inch down its the heart and worst case I hope I've drilled his lungs. In the field, with my own blood pumping thats as fine a call on aim as I can make.

    Either way there is a huge Hydrostatic Shock as Brewsher says. Lots of time that means jelly inside round the heart.

    Im shooting 25-06 so I have traded velocity/ shock for mechanical damage anyway.

    Half way up the body in line with the back of the leg. I rarely have the time to think about more than that.

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