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Thread: WHV Tracking training not progressing.

  1. #1

    WHV Tracking training not progressing.

    Wanted to ask those of you who have experience in tracking training.

    I have a HWV bitch 2yrs, she is doing well in most thing and I have seen some real progress in her. From being gun nervous to now being steady, whining under the high seat to sitting for 3hrs while deer pass by with out a sound.

    I started blood tracking on simple trails with hoof and a few drops of blood every 2m over 40m, 1/2hr old from 5mths of age. All good so far. I lay a trail for her at least once a month if not twice.
    I have slowly worked up to 3hr, 200 - 300m trails in all weather with a hoof on a long stick and a few drops of blood every 3- 6m.
    The issue is that the last few trails we have done she has real trouble staying on it,she is all over the place. Sometime distracted by other game sent sometime just no clue.
    When she goes off the trail I hold the line till she finds the trail and let her continue.

    Am I not using enough blood ? (2-5 drops squirted from a bottle every 3-6m)
    Do you tell your dog NO when they start pissing about after pheasants when on a train and does that work in the end even if you want to use them on game at other times?

    Any help would be appreciated.

  2. #2
    She is getting bored .. That is all it is
    Try making the tracks a bit more challenging but fun with a proper reward at the end
    You hav to focus their minds to the job in hand and also realise that at that age they are an equivalent to an adolescent teenager
    The stage will pass eventually so try not to force it

  3. #3
    I 100% agree with stone.I have 2HWV .The oldest has a full CV now although I only trained her for stalking.
    I would use a lot more blood .Put it into a washing up liquid bottle and give it a good squib every few yards.
    Remember they are air scenting dogs,not hounds.Once your dog knows what its purpose in life is it will be ok.
    Put a fresh deer skin at the end of your trails with a reward eg fresh heart.
    Thats how I did mine and she is great.

  4. #4
    Think you did something wrong , first your dog is already to old ,NO blood ( what will happen when there is no blood ? ) Here on the continent it is forbidden to work with a gun nervous dog .

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudi View Post
    Think you did something wrong , first your dog is already to old ,NO blood ( what will happen when there is no blood ? ) Here on the continent it is forbidden to work with a gun nervous dog .
    Rudi
    An interesting post but not very productive would you say
    A person of your ability should not be putting others down about their failings but trying to encourage on
    That is what we are about is it not
    We are not on the continent but trying to learn by their methods
    And to be honest if a dog is truly gunshy it will never get over that
    If it does then it was not gunshy in the first place

    But why is it forbidden to work with a gun nervous dog
    I can see no revelance
    As most dogs are nervous to the gun because of handler/ trainer error which is easily overcome
    Thoughts

  6. #6
    Correct , but i try to say , what will happen later , howmutch offer will it take to bring the dog to a sertain level . Iff we do a test on those dogs , i think you know the anwser already . Sorry , you must tell the reality .
    My advice , start a deer dog from the age off 9 weeks , less problems .

  7. #7
    I know and see where you are coming from and to be honest I am trying to work to those sort of standards myself
    But we still hav to look at the bigger picture
    Here in the UK we are still trying to understand it all
    Being so harsh is no good at this stage
    It will be our next dog that it will count when more knowledge and experienced is gained and used will make the difference
    Which is why you are prepared to pass on your knowledge and training guidance
    Go slowly but surely will make a world of difference to the way you put things across
    As your input is actually quite important

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudi View Post
    Correct , but i try to say , what will happen later , howmutch offer will it take to bring the dog to a sertain level . Iff we do a test on those dogs , i think you know the anwser already . Sorry , you must tell the reality .
    My advice , start a deer dog from the age off 9 weeks , less problems .
    Gun nervous, you misunderstand, Plus irrelevant regarding tracking training.
    I had said she has pretty much come good on that. Short of blasting the rifle/shotgun over her head she sits tight. 6months ago I would sit her 50m back now 5m.

    This being my first dog I found it hard to know when to start her tracking.
    Those with true scent hounds seem to be told to get them onto blood before their off the tit but HPR trainers mostly say the earlier you start the more damage can be done and don't even bother before 9mths.
    I went for somewhere in the middle!

    Stone and Wildfowler1, thanks for your more positive input.
    I thought making the trail more interesting would inevitably mean making it more challenging or is that a good thing to make her work for it a bit more?
    Regarding more blood on the trail, this seemed the obvious way to go but so many people I read say use little to no blood.

  9. #9
    Trucraft,ignore what Rudi tells you at your peril where tracking is concerned!
    The problem you're running up against is one where I presume you've trained your dog to birds first,first wrong move,when working deer best to get it tracking ASAP,as Rudi says early,very early!No matter what breed it is!If its meant for deer weld them to that first,you end up with a much better dog as a result.
    Then if you want it to work to birds etc they'll be much more steady to everything else if they're doing the deer job already
    Anyone who trains HPRs to deer that I know do this first,in fact Guy Wallace recommends it as do a lot of other prominent trainers
    Personally I would not work/breed a gun shy/nervous dog,although nervousness can be overcome as I think you have by the sounds of it.
    Using no blood is correct if your dog knows how to track which as Rudi says your dog is old for this,however as Stone says if you want a deer dog,not a tracking dog!use more blood it will hype him up a bit,there is a distinct difference between the 2 types of dog(tracking and trailing/air scenting)Your HWV will with a lot of work perhaps track one day,until then get him interested with blood on the ground and hence get his nose on the deck rather than in the air

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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by stone View Post
    I know and see where you are coming from and to be honest I am trying to work to those sort of standards myself
    But we still hav to look at the bigger picture
    Here in the UK we are still trying to understand it all
    Being so harsh is no good at this stage
    It will be our next dog that it will count when more knowledge and experienced is gained and used will make the difference
    Which is why you are prepared to pass on your knowledge and training guidance
    Go slowly but surely will make a world of difference to the way you put things across
    As your input is actually quite important
    Now Stone let us remember that Rudi is not from our shores and has a much better grasp of our language than we have of his,much harder trying to explain things in a different language,being harsh was how I learned at school or how the wife trained meit's no bad thing,it learns people and they will remember this
    When you or i have as much experience as Rudi at this game we may well become harsh as well,especially if we know better which Rudi most definitely does and I must say that I find it frustrating sometimes as well when people constantly question experience of those with more experience than themselves,pitfalls of the Internet I suppose,I know that Rudi most definitely knows his stuff and is one of the nicest men I have had the pleasure of meeting,learning from and calling a friend.
    Dogs for deer is nothing new in the UK but tracking correctly is IMO.There is a world of difference!
    Last edited by Wolverine; 20-05-2012 at 00:32.

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