Is every one ready

6pointer

Well-Known Member
Well i got asked last night by a chap about the Lev1 He was asking if its true that it will become compulsory in Scotland and were dose he get it from.
Is every one aware that this will be in place very soon.

Do you also think that when it is compulsory that it will become more expensive and do you think there will be a last minute rush to do it.
 
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I think it is on the cards to become compulsory, and undoubtedly the fact that it's compulsory there will be a knock on effect on charges.
 
My farmers mate was saying something about do you have your level 1 to be shooting on his land as it law. I only herd half the convo so never jumped in lol
 
My farmers mate was saying something about do you have your level 1 to be shooting on his land as it law. I only herd half the convo so never jumped in lol
. This will a requirement to alter both the Firearms Law & the Deer Act Law in scotland, and I have not heard, or seen anything in BASC magazine lately, but assuming the legislation is to be changed it may be that your friendly Fireams dept will be insisting that the DSC1 as a minumum requirement for the granting of a FAC, it will be very interesting to say what the FA dept will have to say about those of us who have already got our FAC, personally I think the compluslory requirement to have your DSC1 is too far, we already self regulate ourselves in all aspects of our sport. An old American anicdote: IF IT AIN'T BUST... DON'T FIX me thinks!!
 
Do we know the date it will be made law and what about people from outside the uk coming over for a couple of days stalking ???
 
I am sure it will be made clear soon enough the government department dealing with this will need tyo give plenty of time for people to get things sorted one way or the other.
 
6Pointer - your language!:cool:

You word things as if its an announcement rather than a question.

The topic per se has been covered before - the foundation of the matter is in the wording of the Wildlife and Natural Environment legislation that came in recently. At risk of misquoting it, I would refer people to the source material.

Effectively, there is no definite decision on Compulsory DSC1 or any other measure of competence. There is a provision that SNH must report back on the issue of competency to the relevant minister by ( I think ) April 2014, unless some other measure has been taken in that regard in the interim.

Thats it - report back - upon which ( if nothing happens in the interim ) a process may or may not start to bring in some form of competency standard.

Now I fully appreciate it sounds a bit like a foregone conclusion and generally reads as quite a weird thing to have put in the legislation. So the half facts and general atmosphere understandably give rise to the query about DSC1.

I believe ( not a certainty ) that the provision stems from the original consultation exercise on the WANE Bill - during which SNH asserted that a number of accidents/ fatalities were attributable to stalking and a general thrust to dispense with close seasons and rely upon stalkers assessing the individual situation and acting accordingly.

These aspects were roundly 'commented' upon by the various bodies - including ( I believe ) SGA, BASC et al and many individual respondents - include me in that. As a result the elements that would have addressed competency in the WANE Bill did not translate over into the Act. I concede fully that this is purely my interpretation only. But against that background, the above mentioned 'weird bit' starts to make a bit more sense.

I have no facts as to what SNH are doing or proposing to do about their report or the shape it will actually take.

But our arguments regards safety and competency were persuasive previously, that gives a very good chance they maybe again - especially when focussed upon that single issue rather than within the wider context of the original Bill. Clients who are senior Civil Servants all indicate there is little current appetite for Government to take on yet more layers of work - how that is affected by a certain persons determination to become El Presidente - who knows?

Vested interest because 1. we deliver DSC1 training and assessment and 2. without Dieter Dent and all those who put effort into the early BDS Deer Management course at Stockbridge in the early 80's, I would likely not be a stalker now.

DSC1 works, its pretty darn good, it stands scrutiny against much more expensive and burdensome schemes elsewhere in Europe and has demonstrably raised overall standards. Its voluntary level of take up is frankly outstanding. That doesn't go unnoticed. But yes - it 'aint perfect!

Price wise? Who knows? We don't know what will happen or what the requirements will be - if any change at all. The current competitive provision system works well to affect the price - eg BDS recent price changes and their part reversal in stance on home/self study packages from that in Mr Goffin's article in Deer Magazine last year.

Opening comment meant as no disrespect to 6Pointer - cant find a tongue in cheek emoticon - but its like saying Angelina Jolie has the hots for JAYB; it's perfectly understandable - he's a good looking dude. But any debate would be circular without facts ( like them being pictured in Heat Magazine ).

The debate should be to ensure all those with an interest make sure the representative bodies are well on the case, we each contribute to any consultation and we collectively & individually do all that we can to maintain the highest standards of conduct.
 
I doubt it will become a pre requisite for obtaining a firearms license, how could that work when not everyone who wishes to own a firearm requires to shoot deer.

Much more likely that it will become a minimum requirement for Forestry companies and Landowners to insist on before letting out there sporting rights, but small farmers etc may choose to ignore that requirement.

In answer to who ever raised the point about visiting foreigners, they will be accompanied by stalkers who are DSC1 qualified just the same as they would be if they required to use an estate rifle and they in turn will not require to be DSC1 qualified.
 
Glen you are bang on but there are moves afoot to change the open ticket and have palced on that ticket the right to shoot deer .Also do you think the lads with a 3006 will be able to say its for fox control .There could be problems ahead for the ones who have not done the level one.
 
Do we know the date it will be made law and what about people from outside the uk coming over for a couple of days stalking ???

I think I am right in saying that to stalk on your own in Scotland you need to now be on the Fit and Competent Register for SNH. This requires Level 1 and 2.

As far as Level one being made compulsory in England, it is only a matter of time now. I also think the insurance companies will be asking for it in the near future. I hope the government does not become involved as the price will rise and the list of those wanting to pass will grow overnight.
 
Just wait until 2014 we will find out by then. leve 1 shoot deer .level 1 deer legal rifle.
no leve 1 ? we will just have to wait & see.
(scotland)
 
I think I am right in saying that to stalk on your own in Scotland you need to now be on the Fit and Competent Register for SNH. This requires Level 1 and 2.

As far as Level one being made compulsory in England, it is only a matter of time now. I also think the insurance companies will be asking for it in the near future. I hope the government does not become involved as the price will rise and the list of those wanting to pass will grow overnight.

Sika- sorry totally incorrect on stalking in Scotland.

At present to shoot deer 'in Season' in Scotland there is no requirement to hold any qualification other than where a requirement of the landowner such as FC, Scottish Woodlands etc is imposed. Where the issue has changed is that to shoot deer 'out of Season' requires an Authorisation which can be downloaded from the SNH site. There are specific requirements to be met but on unenclosed woodland or agricultural ground then you need to be on SNH's F&C register. On enclosed woodland/improved agricultural land as long as you are the owner, occupier or tenant with deer causing damage and no other method can prevent it, then you can shoot male deer and juveniles (under 12 months). No females can be shot out of season between 1st April and 31st August, unless under specific authorisation issued by SNH and on F&C register.

There was some confusion before the Act came in, in April 2012 when SNH included information on their site advising that sporting leases did not comply with Occupier/Tenant Rights and you then had to be on the F&C register, but that has since been withdrawn and the issue somewhat fudged over.

In terms of the future and qualifications, SNH must carry out a review by 1st April 2014 of (a) levels of competence among persons who shoot deer in Scotland; (b) the effect of such levels of competence on deer welfare, and consult such persons and organisations as it considers have an interest in the review. If by the above date SNH have not undertaken this exercise, the Scottish Ministers can then invoke the requirement.

At last years Lowland Deer Network Seminar in Peebles, the representatives from SNH indicated that the minimum qualification they would be looking for is Level 2 as this is the standard required to get onto their current F&C Register.

My own personal view given the legislation provisions and discussion with SNH is that by April 2014 to shoot deer in Scotland you will require Level 2 and be on SNH's F&C Register or under the supervision of someone on the register with no exceptions- but time will tell. So it would be worth doing the DSC Level 1 and 2 now before any price hike.

Attached are links to the legislation if anyone is interested:
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/S...vironment (Scotland) Bill/b52bs3-aspassed.pdf
http://www.snh.gov.uk/protecting-scotlands-nature/species-licensing/deer/authorisations/
 


Sika- sorry totally incorrect on stalking in Scotland.

At present to shoot deer 'in Season' in Scotland there is no requirement to hold any qualification other than where a requirement of the landowner such as FC, Scottish Woodlands etc is imposed. Where the issue has changed is that to shoot deer 'out of Season' requires an Authorisation which can be downloaded from the SNH site. There are specific requirements to be met but on unenclosed woodland or agricultural ground then you need to be on SNH's F&C register. On enclosed woodland/improved agricultural land as long as you are the owner, occupier or tenant with deer causing damage and no other method can prevent it, then you can shoot male deer and juveniles (under 12 months). No females can be shot out of season between 1st April and 31st August, unless under specific authorisation issued by SNH and on F&C register.

There was some confusion before the Act came in, in April 2012 when SNH included information on their site advising that sporting leases did not comply with Occupier/Tenant Rights and you then had to be on the F&C register, but that has since been withdrawn and the issue somewhat fudged over.

In terms of the future and qualifications, SNH must carry out a review by 1st April 2014 of (a) levels of competence among persons who shoot deer in Scotland; (b) the effect of such levels of competence on deer welfare, and consult such persons and organisations as it considers have an interest in the review. If by the above date SNH have not undertaken this exercise, the Scottish Ministers can then invoke the requirement.

At last years Lowland Deer Network Seminar in Peebles, the representatives from SNH indicated that the minimum qualification they would be looking for is Level 2 as this is the standard required to get onto their current F&C Register.

My own personal view given the legislation provisions and discussion with SNH is that by April 2014 to shoot deer in Scotland you will require Level 2 and be on SNH's F&C Register or under the supervision of someone on the register with no exceptions- but time will tell. So it would be worth doing the DSC Level 1 and 2 now before any price hike.

Attached are links to the legislation if anyone is interested:
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/S...vironment (Scotland) Bill/b52bs3-aspassed.pdf
http://www.snh.gov.uk/protecting-scotlands-nature/species-licensing/deer/authorisations/



Ahh then I stand corrected, I did say as I understand it, but then being this far south word takes a while to filter down. It would appear that there are a great many very mixed messages coming from too many institutes such as SNH FC and the Scottish council.

But it would still appear that they fully intend to implement it then! If they are considering it, then it will generally as a rule happen as far as I am concerned. This will lead to others, ie westminster following suit, no doubt.
 
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