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Thread: If only they put as much effort into licensing....

  1. #1

    If only they put as much effort into licensing....

    Police heavy-handedness | Shooting and field sports news, politics and legal | Shooting UK | Shooting UK

    Seems they are happy to pour money away on something like this instead of improving the woeful service we receive as some of the best behaved and law abiding citizens in the country.
    Beretta Silver Pigeon 20 Bore
    Browing X-Bolt Stainless Stalker - 30-06
    Countryside Management Diary - http://www.leagueofwrath.co.uk/cmblog/

  2. #2
    Notice the number of officers used in this case........................................ and when I told of a similar umber descending upon us here I was ridiculed by many.................

  3. #3
    As always damned if they do damned if they don't. In any operation involving firearms the Chief Constable has a duty of care to all concerned including thoses not directly involved but just happen to be in the area. He cannot say "its ok with this one it's only whoever" The operational policies are developed to minimise the risk to all involved. Perhaps leaving these operations to the experts and not making comment based on hindsight is the best.

  4. #4
    Why can't we comment? These people work for us and seem to forget/ignore it. They sent six (yes six) officers and two cars to take Andy Coulson up to Scotland to charge him! Seems that huge numbers were needed there as well. I find that the police increasingly think they are above the law and don't care about the community they are supposed to serve, then I hear this morning that that the spokesman for the police federation doesn't feel they get the respect they deserve. It is time they understood that respect has to be earned, and can be lost very easily indeed.

    David.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by adjman View Post
    Police heavy-handedness | Shooting and field sports news, politics and legal | Shooting UK | Shooting UK

    Seems they are happy to pour money away on something like this instead of improving the woeful service we receive as some of the best behaved and law abiding citizens in the country.
    Armed police raided the property of a 66-year old baronet to arrest him for being in breach of firearms licensing laws
    Avon and Somerset police employed road blocks, 18 armed police officers, a helicopter and a forensic specialist to arrest a 66-year old baronet at his ancestral home, near Bridgwater, Somerset, for being in breach of firearms licensing laws.

    Taunton Magistrates’ Court heard that Sir Benjamin Slade, whose ancestors fought in the Crimean War and had links to Horatio Nelson, had legally acquired a Fabarm semi-auto before 1987 but had neglected to put it on his certificate. Slade claimed he had spoken to his police firearms officer about it and had thought it was on his certificate.

    He was also found guilty of leaving an AYA shotgun outside his gun cabinet in a locked room. In a statement to the court he said the gun had been taken out in the morning to deal with a fox that was eating his geese.

    Peter Glenser, defending, said: “For more than half a century he has held and used shotguns and firearms legitimately and without incident. Now he is unlikely to get his guns back.”

    I've copied and pasted the above from the link. If its all correct maybe those critising the Police actions can answer a few questions:

    Does/did the defendant deny having an unlicenced semi-auto shotgun?

    Is it ok to have an unlicenced semi-auto shotgun? If its ok for him then is it ok for a drug dealer in an inner city to have one?

    Does/did he leave one of his other shotguns unsecured when he was not using it? Is this ok?

    Please explain the relevance of him being 66, a Baronet and having ancestors with links to Crimea/Nelson? Do a different set of laws apply under these circunstances?

    Is the defendants barrister also a BASC Council member? Assuming the defendant is not denying the above serious firarms offences, is it not a conflict of interest for a BASC Council member to be involving himself in this case?

    Responsible firearms users should be condemning this mans actions not defending him. Lets just hope that, if the Court finds him guilty, he has his certificates revoked and faces the full penalty which, if I recall correctly, is a mandateory five year custodial sentence for possession of an illegal firearm.

    Meanwhile, back in the real world, I expect the case has/will be tried in a mickey mouse magistrates court where he will be slapped on the wrist and told to try and be a good chap in the future and keep a low profile at the golf club for a while.

    Cynical? Too right I am!

    JC
    Last edited by JC275; 08-06-2012 at 09:30.

  6. #6
    "Avon and Somerset police employed road blocks, 18 armed police officers, a helicopter and a forensic specialist to arrest a 66-year old baronet at his ancestral home, near Bridgwater, Somerset, for being in breach of firearms licensing laws."

    Well blow me down - after me banging on about their being no such thing with regards to firearms, they go and demonstrate that they really do know the meaning of 'overkill' in A&S don't they!

    IMO it's a good example of the general police mindset when it comes to firearms ownership:

    Guns = crime, therefore gunowners = criminals.

    I'm becoming more convinced all the time that the police should not be in control of firearms licensing - even G4 or whoever might currently be making the largest donation to the Tories might make a better job of it.

  7. #7
    As I don't believe all that is reported in the media I only commented upon the mount of officers claimed to have been used. Nothing else.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by JC275 View Post
    Is it ok to have an unlicenced semi-auto shotgun? If its ok for him then is it ok for a drug dealer in an inner city to have one?
    It's very different a shotgun certificate holder having a gun that is somehow missed off their SGC versus one held by someone else.

    I had the wrong serial number on my SGC (RFD put wrong details on gun transfer printout) and it was over a year later when I had filled all the boxes and sent off for a re-print that the error was noticed. I rang them up and they took the new number and sent me a new SGC. Should I be locked up for having a gun in my cabinet that wasn't on my SGC and another mystery one I cannot account for?

    If this is a genuine error then it should have been picked up on a SGC renewal.

    Quote Originally Posted by JC275 View Post
    Does/did he leave one of his other shotguns unsecured when he was not using it? Is this ok?
    There is no requirement in law to keep a shotgun in a cabinet. So long as a non certificate holder doesn't have access then no law has been broken. If I get a shotgun wet I leave it in the bedroom at night to dry out. My wife has a SGC so it's not an issue. If we had guests I wouldn't do it. A locked room in a house is more secured than a locked cabinet in an empty house!

    Section 161 of the Highways Act 1980 (England & Wales) makes it an offence to discharge a firearm within 50 ft of the centre of a highway with vehicular rights without lawful authority or excuse, if as a result a user of the highway is injured, interrupted or endangered.

  9. #9
    Every now and then there tends to be a token demonstration of authority as a message and an example to the rest. It doesn't just happen in the firearms community: it is widely accepted that phone hacking was allegedly used by the press but News International is being made an example; it is always the major oil exploration & production companies that are castigated for health & safety failings; etc, etc.

    When I did my DSC1, a local police FLO who was conducting the legal content, mentioned a story about a Justice of the Peace in his area who on receiving a visit from the FLO met the JP's wife at the door: 'Do you need to check his guns, I know where the keys are so I can let you check them' she stated. The result - revocation as it was deemed as not taking reasonable steps to prevent access to an unauthorised person by allowing access to the key.

    This story just goes to prove that we cannot be complacent about abiding by the law, despite the heavy-handed and over zealous nature of this incident on what appears to be a breach of the law.

    David

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by JC275 View Post
    Please explain the relevance of him being 66, a Baronet and having ancestors with links to Crimea/Nelson? Do a different set of laws apply under these circunstances?
    JC, I think this is to try and portray the person in question as an upstanding and respected member of society who has not broken any other laws in 66 years, bearing this in mind and the fact he was not threatening to shoot anyone or, in fact, doing anything that posed a threat to public safety it could be viewed that the police were a little overzealous in the way they handled the situation.

    I'm well aware that they have to follow certain procedures, but I don't believe they can't adjust personnel numbers based on the situation. They must be able to make some adjustment based upon the level of risk involved.
    Beretta Silver Pigeon 20 Bore
    Browing X-Bolt Stainless Stalker - 30-06
    Countryside Management Diary - http://www.leagueofwrath.co.uk/cmblog/

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